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      11-06-2015, 03:39 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by JoeyO
That sport van is bad ass. Estorial Blue makes it go faster.
Pretty sure Sabine would drive it
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      11-06-2015, 03:41 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by Papashawnsky
If there's one thing I've learned over the past 5 or so years, its that America loves hatchbacks as long as you call them anything other than a hatchback.
Crossover! ( Morris Day/the Time/Prince voice )
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      11-06-2015, 03:42 PM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26
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Originally Posted by BlackJetE90 View Post
Cars like this are easy money. Take the X6 for example. A minimal cost to build them along side the X5, on the same assembly line. They mark up the X6 10% over the X5. BMW produced 235,000+ E70 X6 units. You do the math, with the X6 on average selling for $5k premium over X5. There is big money in vehicles like this. Why do you think Mercedes now has an X6 competitor...money.
It was actually 250,000 units of E71 X6 2008-2014.
The X4 is selling exceptionally well, its replacement arrives in early 2018.
The X2 arrives in 2017.
The new X1 is already a hit since launching in October. Total X1 sales of the E84 topped over 750,000. So it won't be too long before the X1 joins the X3 and X5 in the million units category if sales continue to be strong.
The new X3 brings in a new design language for the X models followed by the X7.
The X7 will be the 7Series of the X models not simply just an extended X5, it will also be offered with the 7er V12.
Discussions for an X8 are underway.
The X family will also offer Li models for certain markets to carry seven passengers.
The X2 will have a sister car in the MINI Countryman Coupe which will replace the PACEMAN. An additional model of the Countryman instead of a new model.
BMW X models give a large majority of total unit sales and profitability.

And this will be continued because of the SUV/Crossover being the worlds best selling segment for the entire industry.
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      11-06-2015, 03:44 PM   #70
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Okay so I'm not allowed to ask why BMW is making so many models because I would sound like a "dogmatic fanboy" but I suppose that doesn't stop me from saying that this car looks silly - it's way too similar to the X1 and doesn't even have a sloping roofline so what's the point? At least an X5 and X6 (or X3/X4) look different from the side and back - this looks identical to an X1. It's almost as if they're making new models just for the heck of it. At least put in some effort to differentiate it from the X1 FFS.
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      11-06-2015, 03:51 PM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Law View Post
See, here's the thing though...while BMW's strategy is not (yet) the full-fledged badge engineering of GM such that Mini, Rolls, and BMW cars are still differentiated.
But within the BMW marque itself, the cars overlap in price and customer base, with very minuscule differences. For example, the 328i sedan and the 428i GranCoupe sound like different cars and are advertised as different models, but really, they are one and the same & fulfill the same purpose: a Compact Executive/D-segment vehicle.
If BMW can keep sales within the BMW marque, that's fine and that's what you want. The problem with GM and the various brands is you had to keep profits up for each entity. That didn't happen. Saturn, Hummer, Pontiac all suffered because there were similar cars outside of those companies. While it may look good for GM as a whole (profit stays under the corporation), the financials for those companies suffered, eventually leading to shutting down those operations.

BMW on the other hand, even if they're competing with each other, BMW can only profit. Before the Gran Coupe, the 3er got 100% of the sales. Now it could be 2:1 and maybe even 1:2 3er to 4er GC. BMW just lost 3er sales, but they just easily made a profit on the same car that had a premium and retained all that profit under the BMW marque. There's almost no loss for BMW doing what they're doing.

Every company has their ups and downs, so let's not over exaggerate and blame all these models when BMW has a slow month. What is happening is one of two things:

1. BMW captures customers with these derivative models while retaining their core customer (3, 5, 7er).

2. BMW sees a dip in their core line up but sees in increase in their derivative cars.

Both scenarios only benefit BMW. The only people who care are those who see that the 3er lost some sales and think its the end of the world because BMWs bread/butter had a decrease, but in reality, all they did was move over to the 4er Gran Coupe and paid a premium for essentially the same car.
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      11-06-2015, 04:12 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by IcemanNorway View Post
Next version
You know somebody out there would buy it.

Would look better with a nice mural airbrushed on the side, maybe with some wizards and orcs and stuff.
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      11-06-2015, 04:19 PM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Law View Post
But within the BMW marque itself, the cars overlap in price and customer base, with very minuscule differences. For example, the 328i sedan and the 428i GranCoupe sound like different cars and are advertised as different models, but really, they are one and the same & fulfill the same purpose: a Compact Executive/D-segment vehicle.
Hmm, I strongly considered buying a 4-series Gran Coupe because it's the best-looking BMW 4-door vehicle right now.

Whereas I'd never consider a 328i (nothing against it, it's just not my thing).

Speaking only for myself, I don't really see the 4GC and 3er two as equivalent. One is sheer hawtness, and the other is a nice sport sedan that I see pretty much everywhere where I live.
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      11-06-2015, 04:38 PM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBingoBalls View Post
You can never please everyone. When BMW comes out with a new model, people criticize because they're bastardizing the brand. But when BMW doesn't or comes out with one late, it's the same s--t. If BMW came out with a CLA competitor before Mercedes actually launched the CLA, everyone here would be crying that it has no purpose, if you want 4 doors, buy the 3-Series. Now that the CLA has been successful for Mercedes and forcing BMW to address this segment, everyone is complaining that BMW was too slow to release one.

No one here works for BMW and no one here has done in-depth market research so no one here can criticize what will and what won't work. As far as all these new models go, they have all met or surpassed BMW's expectations. Don't mix sales with expectations as a metric for success.
Totally agree
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      11-06-2015, 05:27 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBingoBalls View Post
If BMW can keep sales within the BMW marque, that's fine and that's what you want. The problem with GM and the various brands is you had to keep profits up for each entity. That didn't happen. Saturn, Hummer, Pontiac all suffered because there were similar cars outside of those companies. While it may look good for GM as a whole (profit stays under the corporation), the financials for those companies suffered, eventually leading to shutting down those operations.

BMW on the other hand, even if they're competing with each other, BMW can only profit. Before the Gran Coupe, the 3er got 100% of the sales. Now it could be 2:1 and maybe even 1:2 3er to 4er GC. BMW just lost 3er sales, but they just easily made a profit on the same car that had a premium and retained all that profit under the BMW marque. There's almost no loss for BMW doing what they're doing.

Every company has their ups and downs, so let's not over exaggerate and blame all these models when BMW has a slow month. What is happening is one of two things:

1. BMW captures customers with these derivative models while retaining their core customer (3, 5, 7er).

2. BMW sees a dip in their core line up but sees in increase in their derivative cars.

Both scenarios only benefit BMW. The only people who care are those who see that the 3er lost some sales and think its the end of the world because BMWs bread/butter had a decrease, but in reality, all they did was move over to the 4er Gran Coupe and paid a premium for essentially the same car.
Your scenarios assume that BMW models compete with themselves and themselves only. When we talk about internal competition, we mustn't forget about the external competition.
Market share only increases if the product successfully sells over another [external] competitor. Competing with another product within the same brand doesn't increase market share.

The problem with your assumption is that BMW sales figures released to the public do not differentiate between 4er GC and 4er coupe.
Thus, a hypothetical sales period that see 3er sales decrease and 4er sales increase cannot be automatically attributed to positive sales of the 4er GC.
For all we know in the above scenario, its possible the 4er coupe sold well, the 4er GC barely sold, and the 3er could have very well lost sales to marques other than BMW (i.e., Audi, MB).


So in your perfect scenario, BMW's costs are minimal because it assumes buyers will decide between 3er and 4er GC only.
But in reality there are other options from other brands, so BMW's costs will simply be exacerbated in a less-than-perfect scenario should a buyer choose a product from a brand other than BMW.


In the short-term thus far, it seems to work for BMW's bottom line.
I'm just skeptical whether this strategy is sustainable in the long-term.
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      11-06-2015, 05:38 PM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Law View Post
Your scenarios assume that BMW models compete with themselves and themselves only. When we talk about internal competition, we mustn't forget about the external competition.
Market share only increases if the product successfully sells over another [external] competitor. Competing with another product within the same brand doesn't increase market share.

The problem with your assumption is that BMW sales figures released to the public do not differentiate between 4er GC and 4er coupe.
Thus, a hypothetical sales period that see 3er sales decrease and 4er sales increase cannot be automatically attributed to positive sales of the 4er GC.
For all we know in the above scenario, its possible the 4er coupe sold well, the 4er GC barely sold, and the 3er could have very well lost sales to marques other than BMW (i.e., Audi, MB).


So in your perfect scenario, BMW's costs are minimal because it assumes buyers will decide between 3er and 4er GC only.
But in reality there are other options from other brands, so BMW's costs will simply be exacerbated in a less-than-perfect scenario should a buyer choose a product from a brand other than BMW.


In the short-term thus far, it seems to work for BMW's bottom line.
I'm just skeptical whether this strategy is sustainable in the long-term.
You're absolutely right. What I posted was pure assumption only because I didn't want to go through sales data and specifically outline what it reads and was just also assuming based on BMW sales increasing here and there but have been relatively flat vs. Mercedes and Audi.

But all that could mean what was said, you're right it doesn't increase market share and it doesn't allow growth which is basically what is currently happening with BMW and all that is happening is moving from one model (3er) to another 4er Gran Coupe (assumption).

I could be totally wrong but that's just a quick thought. When I'm bored, I might go over the sales data to see if that is the trend. Maybe it is, Maybe it isn't.
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      11-06-2015, 05:57 PM   #77
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Looks very Hondaesque.

Now 6 X models and 3 GT models ... We need a convertible, two door SUV. That segment is wide open.
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      11-06-2015, 06:16 PM   #78
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Can I just get a simple f**king wagon with a decent engine please? Is that too f**king much to ask?
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      11-06-2015, 06:19 PM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShinySteelRobot View Post
Hmm, I strongly considered buying a 4-series Gran Coupe because it's the best-looking BMW 4-door vehicle right now.

Whereas I'd never consider a 328i (nothing against it, it's just not my thing).

Speaking only for myself, I don't really see the 4GC and 3er two as equivalent. One is sheer hawtness, and the other is a nice sport sedan that I see pretty much everywhere where I live.
Well there you go then. YOU sir are the rationale for all this crap.
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      11-06-2015, 07:27 PM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bunker View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShinySteelRobot View Post
Hmm, I strongly considered buying a 4-series Gran Coupe because it's the best-looking BMW 4-door vehicle right now.

Whereas I'd never consider a 328i (nothing against it, it's just not my thing).

Speaking only for myself, I don't really see the 4GC and 3er two as equivalent. One is sheer hawtness, and the other is a nice sport sedan that I see pretty much everywhere where I live.
Well there you go then. YOU sir are the rationale for all this crap.
Haha ok. I'm reasonably certain that it's not only me who feels that way.

Personally I think having more choices in the marketplace is a good thing. It'd be a boring world if our only beverage choices were Coke or Pepsi.
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      11-06-2015, 08:09 PM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeyO
That sport van is bad ass. Estorial Blue makes it go faster.
Pretty sure Sabine would drive it
Like it was stolen and being paid by someone else no doubt.
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      11-06-2015, 08:19 PM   #82
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      11-06-2015, 08:43 PM   #83
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http://www.carscoops.com/2015/11/we-...sover.html?m=1

New X2 shape becoming more obvious in these pics. Might not be a bad looker, but like a squashed down version of X1 - bit like the GLA. Doesn't seem to have coupe-like rear profile of X4 and X6.
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      11-06-2015, 11:59 PM   #84
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      11-07-2015, 12:44 AM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilipF1 View Post
[url]New X2 shape becoming more obvious in these pics. Might not be a bad looker, but like a squashed down version of X1 - bit like the GLA. Doesn't seem to have coupe-like rear profile of X4 and X6.
Too bad. A coupe style profile could be nice. This shorter version of the X1 appears to have the proportions of a Subaru. Will have to wait and see how she looks without the swirls, maybe it'll surprise us and look good.
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      11-07-2015, 03:39 AM   #86
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I'm curious about the M Performance model: *40i engine again will be just great!
Comments about look can't be expressed in a proper way at this stage!
If I have to compare 2 niche models: X2 vs CLA, for me it would be an easy choice, X2 being more practical.
If we need something sportier BMW offers 3 great alternatives (2 for US): M135i & M235i plus M2 starting from early 2016. M2 CSL will follow for track enthusiasts
I guess this is a quite good strategy and I don't see the point of a FWD 1 series sedan!
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      11-07-2015, 04:18 AM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilipF1 View Post
http://www.carscoops.com/2015/11/we-...sover.html?m=1

New X2 shape becoming more obvious in these pics. Might not be a bad looker, but like a squashed down version of X1 - bit like the GLA. Doesn't seem to have coupe-like rear profile of X4 and X6.
Thank you for the photo! The X2 looks pretty geil from this perspective!
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      11-07-2015, 07:40 AM   #88
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I remember seeing this prototype on the road near Stuttgart not too long ago. I was confused to what it was since it was smaller than the X3 and the X1 had already come out, but this makes sense. looks pretty sleek!
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