[GrussGott]

BREAKING NEWS!

$TSLA dropping prices in China for the Model 3 & Model Y!

M3 RWD: -14%
M3 Perf: -6%
MY RWD & Perf: -10%
MY LR: -13%

For comparison, Oct 2022 China price cuts: ~5% avg

All in, this cuts $TSLA profits by 50%+ assuming flat sales, with 22Q4 Chinese sales flat to 22Q3 despite Oct discounts.

This now puts the Model 3 now very close in pricing to the BYD Seal: $31k vs $33.4k ... and $BYDDF has GROWING sales versus $TSLA with declining sales despite the October discounts.

$TSLA also cutting prices in South Korea & Australia

SIDE NOTE:
$TSLA also added the round steering wheel to the Model S and made it the default in the configurator! Sales problems?

[GrussGott]

and, uh, just in case anyone is hodl $TSLA or tempted to buy the dip ...

Here's what every bubble in history looks like:



Here's what $TSLA looks like:

[GrussGott]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

.

I absolutely disagree with you here.

Except for the last point which I find to be such a profound description of lived human experience it's the apotheosis of metaphysical existence.

But the first parts were all crap.

[chad86tsi]

now we know they are getting desparate :

Tesla finally breaks and offers round steering wheel on Model S/X

https://electrek.co/2023/01/05/tesla...eel-model-s-x/

[GrussGott]

Originally Posted by chad86tsi

now we know they are getting desparate :

Tesla finally breaks and offers round steering wheel on Model S/X

https://electrek.co/2023/01/05/tesla...eel-model-s-x/

Most def, and the kicker in that is, the round wheel is the DEFAULT in the configurator now!
#AllElonInputIsError

In a related story, in case anyone wants to super-nerd on the $TSLA semi (including the ginormous federal subsidy Pepsi is getting per truck):

[GrussGott]

Purely curious & a real question:

How many people here speculate Tesla is a government controlled company?
(no, not the US gov't)

[GrussGott]

Interesting thread for car people:

[chad86tsi]

Originally Posted by GrussGott

Interesting thread for car people:

Are they sourcing from JC whitney for their performance parts now?

That's beyond sad. Is this fake? Hard to comprehend. If true, they deserve whatever bad press they get for such a move. how much $$ does it really save them. and what does it do to their brand when this becomes known?

[zx10guy]

Originally Posted by chad86tsi

Are they sourcing from JC whitney for their performance parts now?

That's beyond sad. Is this fake? Hard to comprehend. If true, they deserve whatever bad press they get for such a move. how much $$ does it really save them. and what does it do to their brand when this becomes known?

Unfortunately, if true, Tesla isn't the only car manufacturer that has done this. My ex-wife's 2013 Acura RDX has the same caliper treatment. Except, the cover Acura used was a cheaper/thinner piece of metal versus what's being shown in that Twitter video. How I know this about the RDX is because I was personally replacing the brake pads and rotors on the car.

[G35POPPEDMYCHERRY]

i was reading this thread last night for about an hour, was going to put it down when BGM or whatever ran away...i was so tired...but then chris got involved so I had to stay.


I freaking love of sensitive people get on bimmerpost...moreover people in general.

[G35POPPEDMYCHERRY]

Originally Posted by zx10guy

Unfortunately, if true, Tesla isn't the only car manufacturer that has done this. My ex-wife's 2013 Acura RDX has the same caliper treatment. Except, the cover Acura used was a cheaper/thinner piece of metal versus what's being shown in that Twitter video. How I know this about the RDX is because I was personally replacing the brake pads and rotors on the car.

so many cars now with fake oil cooler vents, massive grilles for cars with small intakes. aerodynamic bits for cars that drive like boats. hell my crv ex has a sport mode on a fucking CVT. WTF does that even mean

fake exhaust tips, caliper colors and sizes....the list goes on




...rice

[zx10guy]

Originally Posted by G35POPPEDMYCHERRY

so many cars now with fake oil cooler vents, massive grilles for cars with small intakes. aerodynamic bits for cars that drive like boats. hell my crv ex has a sport mode on a fucking CVT. WTF does that even mean

fake exhaust tips, caliper colors and sizes....the list goes on




...rice

Ha....my C-HR has a "sport" mode. On a car with an anemic 4 banger mated to a CVT. The thing can't get out of its own way. 144HP trying to motivate a car that weighs 3400 lbs through a CVT and you get a 0 to 60 time of 10 seconds. The funny thing are some members of the C-HR forum that swear up and down the sport mode makes this thing go faster. They get all butt hurt when I tell them the car will only win stoplight drag races if you push it off a cliff.

[GrussGott]

Originally Posted by G35POPPEDMYCHERRY

so many cars now with fake oil cooler vents, massive grilles for cars with small intakes. aerodynamic bits for cars that drive like boats. hell my crv ex has a sport mode on a fucking CVT. WTF does that even mean

fake exhaust tips, caliper colors and sizes....the list goes on




...rice

Yup. That said, I have to turn off sport sound every single fucking time I get in my X5 because BMW really REALLY wants me to listen to fake sound.

[heavyD^2]

Originally Posted by GrussGott

Interesting thread for car people:

Not really surprising as late 2021 Tesla started fitting regular springs to the Model 3 performance without telling anyone and buyers finally started realizing that their Model 3 Performance had the same ride height as the Long Range. Tesla finally did quietly remove the "lowered suspension" text from the Model 3 Performance page but when you order a new Tesla you really have no idea what features could be removed from your car compared to older models as year after year they just keep removing features and hardware unannounced to increase profits.

[NickyC]

I kinda wish BMW would stick a nice caliper cover on that horrid rear G8x slider trash they have on there.

[RM7]

Originally Posted by NickyC

I kinda wish BMW would stick a nice caliper cover on that horrid rear G8x slider trash they have on there.

Fake calipers (covers) look worse than real calipers.

[NickyC]

Originally Posted by RM7

Fake calipers (covers) look worse than real calipers.

Have you seen the G8x rear calipers?

[chad86tsi]

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/tesla...113526491.html

It will be interesting to see what this does to their stock price and overall business health.


Vehicle / Old Purchase Price / New Purchase Price
3 RWD 46,990 43,990
3 Performance 62,990 53,990
Y LR 65,990 52,990
Y Performance 69,990 56,990
S Dual Motor 104,990 94,990
S Plaid 135,990 114,990
X Dual Motor 120,990 109,990
X Plaid 138,990 119,990

Seems like it was a move they needed to make given the inventory pileup and unfavorable (to tesla) tax credit rules, but it also undermines the value of the product. In the tesla forms, there are a lot of owners bemoaning the drop in value of their cars, some members recommending others to buy gap insurance because they just lost a bunch of equity in their cars.

Probably good for Tesla in the long run, but this is going to hurt a lot of feelings and budgets in the shorter term.

[M3WC]

Originally Posted by chad86tsi

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/tesla...113526491.html

It will be interesting to see what this does to their stock price and overall business health.


Vehicle / Old Purchase Price / New Purchase Price
3 RWD 46,990 43,990
3 Performance 62,990 53,990
Y LR 65,990 52,990
Y Performance 69,990 56,990
S Dual Motor 104,990 94,990
S Plaid 135,990 114,990
X Dual Motor 120,990 109,990
X Plaid 138,990 119,990

Seems like it was a move they needed to make given the inventory pileup and unfavorable (to tesla) tax credit rules, but it also undermines the value of the product. In the tesla forms, there are a lot of owners bemoaning the drop in value of their cars, some members recommending others to buy gap insurance because they just lost a bunch of equity in their cars.

Probably good for Tesla in the long run, but this is going to hurt a lot of feelings and budgets in the shorter term.

This puts a lot of heat on rivals, so much for market penetration by other brands. Ford or GM couldn't do prices cuts if they wanted to, they are net negative on EV production. GM is net negative for another 2 years minimum according to CFO.

Tesla is about the only EV manufacturer that can do these price cuts to get under tax credit msrp thresholds and still be in the green. In combination with $7500 tax credit, these price cuts are going to move a lot of metal.

Take the Mach E Extended Range for example, it starts at $63,575. Exceeds IRS $55k msrp threshold for new $7500 tax credit.

Telsa just lowered Model Y Long Range below $55k threshold, to $52,990. Subtract the $7500 tax credit. Theoretically the Model Y Long Range is now $18k+ less than Mach E Ext Range. No one is buying the Mach E for $18k more, which is also slower and has less range. Even worse if you compare it to Mach E Ext Range AWD, it is a $20k difference...ooof.

[chad86tsi]

Originally Posted by M3WC

This puts a lot of heat on rivals, so much for market penetration by other brands. Ford or GM couldn't do prices cuts if they wanted to, they are net negative on EV production. GM is net negative for another 2 years minimum according to CFO.

Tesla is about the only EV manufacturer that can do these price cuts to get under tax credit msrp thresholds and still be in the green. In combination with $7500 tax credit, these price cuts are going to move a lot of metal.

Take the Mach E Extended Range for example, it starts at $63,575. Exceeds IRS $55k msrp threshold for new $7500 tax credit.

Telsa just lowered Model Y Long Range below $55k threshold, to $52,990. Subtract the $7500 tax credit. Theoretically the Model Y Long Range is now $18k+ less than Mach E Ext Range. No one is buying the Mach E for $18k more, which is also slower and has less range. Even worse if you compare it to Mach E Ext Range AWD, it is a $20k difference...ooof.

Yep, some of these prices are near the release prices pre-covid, so back to normal'ish. Also an indication of the benefits of being your own dealer : when the market shifts upward, tesla was able to capture that extra profit for themselves, and then also able to pivot to a lower price when the market retracted without going bankrupt.

[GrussGott]

Originally Posted by chad86tsi

Yep, some of these prices are near the release prices pre-covid, so back to normal'ish. Also an indication of the benefits of being your own dealer : when the market shifts upward, tesla was able to capture that extra profit for themselves, and then also able to pivot to a lower price when the market retracted without going bankrupt.

Originally Posted by M3WC

This puts a lot of heat on rivals, so much for market penetration by other brands.

All of your points are yet to be seen - maybe! - but there's a good argument they're wrong:

$TSLA's price cuts are big gamble due to what might be "inelastic demand".

That is, customers *used* to place a premium on $TSLA products, thus when prices went up, demand growth remained steady. That's pricing power!

But the downside is, when prices come down, customers no longer place (as much of) a premium on the product so demand remains mostly unchanged, even though prices fell / are falling.

Dominos pizza had this during the lockdown: lots of demand, lots of pricing power! But once lockdown was over, customers realized they're tired of eat-in pizza and since there are other options now, they went back to once a week even though Dominos lowered prices!

It's not that Dominos has a bad product, but consumers realized they had better options.

There's some recent data supporting Tesla's inelastic demand; the latest Morning Consult survey for the US shows the # of consumers planning to purchase a BEV this year fell from 22% in 2022 to 17% this year. When you combine this with Edmunds 2022 trade-in data which shows that 50% of people trading in a Tesla buy an ICE vehicle (incl PHEVs), it doesn't bode well.

On the positive side, the survey data also said that 66% of people not planning on buying a BEV listed the top reason as price - so that could be a good sign.

That said, I've been slinging product for a few decades and Tesla products look to me like once hot products now fading, and price cuts won't do much to help due to inelastic demand.

My hunch is, without new products Tesla sales will get a bump here, but then continue on their same trajectory, which will mean they're stuck in inelastic demand hell.

On the flip side, the legacies are just releasing their products so they could wind up still commanding a premium.
And speaking of that premium, the benefit of a dealer network is a professional sales team to move buyers from ICE to BEV and a service department to back it up.

Back in the 1930s Ford lost its leadership position to GM and never recovered it; the reason was stale product.

(And Ford tried lowering prices, but it didn't work)

[KRS_SN]

It was being argued that tesla make a profit of 9.8k per vehicle hence they'te awesome. Now that they're reduced their price by nearly that much they're awesome as they have capacity to reduce prices. What about profit then. Or is that awesome too.