[Needsdecaf]

Originally Posted by Rafichicago

Let me put it this way. Just because you can lap any track in 7 series or S class doesn’t mean it’s the right tool for the job.

See my post above about my buddy embarrassing "right" cars like GT3's and other high performance machines in his Taycan. It's entirely possible. Low COG and instant throttle reponse with tremendous traction has it's own advantages.

You're moving the goalposts after I posted proof your initial point of "one lap" wasn't correct. It was at one point, not long ago. But, as I said, we are past that point.

Also, I just did 5 laps of the 'Ring in June. PLENTY of cars on there aren't "typical performance" cars. Hot hatches, plain sedans, etc.

[micvite]

Originally Posted by Needsdecaf

I literally have no idea how you made this trip into 7 charging stops unless it was below zero and you were going like 100 MPH. According to A Better Route Planner, you should be able to do a trip from North NJ to Niagra Falls on ONE stop in good weather. So factor in 2 additional stops due to colder weather and load, how on earth did you make SEVEN?

I played with the settings, set the reference consumption at 350 Wh/mile at 65, which is high, and set the speed up to 125% of the limit and STILL it only shows two stops and a total trip time of 6.5 hours. It's only a 375 mile run. Did you have like a 50 MPH headwind?

I'm not saying you're lying....but your situation is definitely not the norm. I've done 400 plus miles in one day in freezing weather with only 2 charging stops. And that was on a Model 3 performance with only a 75 kWh battery.

And see, that's the issue, it's ONLY a model 3 and y that can possibly achieve good results. S and x consume electricity at a rate that's rediculous. 85 mph is a consumption of 420 ish in nice weather and easily 450-480 in cold weather. Confirmed by tesla multiple times as being "normal due to the speed driven) I've even had 500+ before in sub freezing temps and this is just cruising. Driving the car like I would my m5 (flooring it at every occasion) I get around 700 wh/mi you can see my average over 18 thousand miles driven while I had the car is an appalling 444 wh/mi

Here's some analytics, as you can see a model s performance dual motor gets an average of 450 throughout the speed range. It does drop to like 380 if you're cruising at 65 consistently. Btw summer tires were 21 in winters were 19, I did notice around a 5% increase in wh/mi between winter and summer tires in same temp.

Oh and that's my niagara trip, 7 drives aka charging stops (or is that 6?) Because you don't charge to 100% you stop and charge 30-40% every 80-100 miles. Heck some of these I stayed another 20 mins just to skip another charger because I was fed up with slowing down taking a 5 mile detour at 35 mph to go to a charger. Either way wasn't a fun trip. Had a 2018 p100d loaner, it averaged around the same. Took a plaid out over the weekend as a test drive, it did marginally better, but sustained 85 mph (max autopilot speed) still was around 430 and that was with 19s. Now a model 3 or y? For whatever reason those do around 350 at 85. Probably because the motors are less powerful using less energy overall (sort of how a v8 will always use more gas than an i6)

[Rafichicago]

Originally Posted by jmack123

Clearly you haven’t done your own research well enough or you’d have heard of two words - Battery Swapping. NIO already has an infra in China and is building an infra in Europe where batteries can be swapped in 3 mins - i.e. around the same time is would take to refuel. I have no doubt this will be the tech used for more serious electric motorsports and will likely trickle down to performance models in the consumer space.

Why not tow two or three cars to the track than and swap them whenever you wish ? I will not convince you to my way of doing things and you will not convince me to yours either. For me Evs are good grocery getters and useful commuter appliances. That’s all. Until decent infrastructure is done and proper quick charging is available together with lower weight negatives outweigh positives. For me at least. Especially in places that have winters. Oh. And don’t forget about our government shutting down nuclear plants. I see those power outages and grid overloading.

[harperium]

if i cant take it on a road trip easily, then i dont care. all the best driving roads are far from interstates.

[jmack123]

Originally Posted by Rafichicago

Why not tow two or three cars to the track than and swap them whenever you wish ? I will not convince you to my way of doing things and you will not convince me to yours either. For me Evs are good grocery getters and useful commuter appliances. That’s all. Until decent infrastructure is done and proper quick charging is available together with lower weight negatives outweigh positives. For me at least. Especially in places that have winters. Oh. And don’t forget about our government shutting down nuclear plants. I see those power outages and grid overloading.

You can do whatever you want - or whatever the government will allow you to do. I was simply pointing out that the charging limitation in a track context is a very much current state which is already being addressed. There are already legitimate proofs of concept (see the NIO EP9 Nurburgring times for example) that being able to use EVs as track cars is feasible. And its funny how people point to weight arbitrarily. Who cares how much an EV weighs if it performs dynamically? I guess people around here forget the new M2 weighs nearly 4,000lbs. That’s a two door sportscar that weighs 4,000lbs. Guess the new M2 isn’t a track car by that logic.

[Rafichicago]

Originally Posted by micvite

And see, that's the issue, it's ONLY a model 3 and y that can possibly achieve good results. S and x consume electricity at a rate that's rediculous. 85 mph is a consumption of 420 ish in nice weather and easily 450-480 in cold weather. Confirmed by tesla multiple times as being "normal due to the speed driven) I've even had 500+ before in sub freezing temps and this is just cruising. Driving the car like I would my m5 (flooring it at every occasion) I get around 700 wh/mi you can see my average over 18 thousand miles driven while I had the car is an appalling 444 wh/mi

Here's some analytics, as you can see a model s performance dual motor gets an average of 450 throughout the speed range. It does drop to like 380 if you're cruising at 65 consistently. Btw summer tires were 21 in winters were 19, I did notice around a 5% increase in wh/mi between winter and summer tires in same temp.

Oh and that's my niagara trip, 7 drives aka charging stops (or is that 6?) Because you don't charge to 100% you stop and charge 30-40% every 80-100 miles. Heck some of these I stayed another 20 mins just to skip another charger because I was fed up with slowing down taking a 5 mile detour at 35 mph to go to a charger. Either way wasn't a fun trip. Had a 2018 p100d loaner, it averaged around the same. Took a plaid out over the weekend as a test drive, it did marginally better, but sustained 85 mph (max autopilot speed) still was around 430 and that was with 19s. Now a model 3 or y? For whatever reason those do around 350 at 85. Probably because the motors are less powerful using less [...]

There you go. Those theoretic ev fanboys trying to prove that it “can be done” or “is possible” or “with some planning “
are making me….😤WE ARE NOT THERE YET. Until next generation of batteries is widely available evs will not be alternative to ice cars.

[jmack123]

Originally Posted by Rafichicago

There you go. Those theoretic ev fanboys trying to prove that it “can be done” or “is possible” or “with some planning “
are making me….😤WE ARE NOT THERE YET. Until next generation of batteries is widely available evs will not be alternative to ice cars.

Ok boomer.

[Rafichicago]

Originally Posted by jmack123

You can do whatever you want - or whatever the government will allow you to do. I was simply pointing out that the charging limitation in a track context is a very much current state which is already being addressed. There are already legitimate proofs of concept (see the NIO EP9 Nurburgring times for example) that being able to use EVs as track cars is feasible. And its funny how people point to weight arbitrarily. Who cares how much an EV weighs if it performs dynamically? I guess people around here forget the new M2 weighs nearly 4,000lbs. Guess the new M2 isn’t a track car by that logic.

Every proper driver will tell you that weight is everything on track. Like said before. Just because something can be done doesn’t mean it should. EV is not tool for the job. At least not yet.

[JMD]

Breaking News! All BEV M cars will be faster than every single ICE M car model that came before it! Fact is, many folks don't want to accept this,...fact is, it will happen! No!! Make that, it's Going to Happen!!!

[jmack123]

Originally Posted by Rafichicago

Every proper driver will tell you that weight is everything on track. Like said before. Just because something can be done doesn’t mean it should. EV is not tool for the job. At least not yet.

So let’s scrap the new M2 then? Too heavy according to you right? In your opinion, whats the objectively “right” weight for different classes of vehicles?

[Rafichicago]

Originally Posted by jmack123

Ok boomer.

🤣🤣🤣
Ok fanboy

[Rafichicago]

Originally Posted by jmack123

So let’s scrap the new M2 then? Too heavy according to you right? In your opinion, whats the objectively “right” weight for different classes of vehicles?

Will you deny that M3 is better for track too with nearly same weight to M2 ?

[hotrod182]

Originally Posted by Rafichicago

Right. Love it. Than recharge after one lap cause it will not make another. Thank you but thank you.

The car will be fine for 99% of your driving needs. Most people don't do laps around the Nurburgring. And chances are if this car was driven as slow as your current car, it would do more than one lap to begin with.

[micvite]

Originally Posted by Rafichicago

Every proper driver will tell you that weight is everything on track. Like said before. Just because something can be done doesn’t mean it should. EV is not tool for the job. At least not yet.

Weight is only an issue on "some" (most) tracks though. Something like the nurburgring that's a high speed high downforce track actually benefits from a heavy ass car since it provides more grip. It's why f1 cars literally double their weight with downforce, so that they can turn essentially 90 degree turns at 100+ mph. Take a gt3rs, on the high speed sections you can literally see the car flattening itself and almost scraping on the track due to the downforce (you can look up pics), sadly I don't have exact values for the amount of downforce they produce buy porsche says its 900 lbs at 124 and 1900 at 177 mph... so yeah that's turning into a 5k lbs car regularly on the nurburgring.

[Rafichicago]

Originally Posted by hotrod182

The car will be fine for 99% of your driving needs. Most people don't do laps around the Nurburgring. And chances are if this car was driven as slow as your current car, it would do more than one lap to begin with.

And that’s exactly my point of that conversation. It works for most. Not for all though. Some have trouble understanding that depending on where we live what we do what the daily commute is or simply what others like, it works or it doesn’t. Nothing to argue about.

[Rafichicago]

Originally Posted by micvite

Weight is only an issue on "some" (most) tracks though. Something like the nurburgring that's a high speed high downforce track actually benefits from a heavy ass car since it provides more grip. It's why f1 cars literally double their weight with downforce, so that they can turn essentially 90 degree turns at 100+ mph. Take a gt3rs, on the high speed sections you can literally see the car flattening itself and almost scraping on the track due to the downforce (you can look up pics), sadly I don't have exact values for the amount of downforce they produce buy porsche says its 900 lbs at 124 and 1900 at 177 mph... so yeah that's turning into a 5k lbs car regularly on the nurburgring.

Of course. Thing is though it does that when needed I would still rather have GT3RS than Plaid 😉

[cfm56d7b]

The software content in the all-electric M vehicle will be much higher. Cautiously optimistic about the software quality (which is now a major component of reliability in EVs) and the production vehicle.

[R N M]

The current M cars may be good on paper but they definitely are not as good from emotional/engagement standpoint compared to older M cars.

I’m sure the EV Ms will be faster etc but will they be more fun to drive?!

[micvite]

Originally Posted by Rafichicago

Of course. Thing is though it does that when needed I would still rather have GT3RS than Plaid 😉

Yeah I was just saying for the purpose of beating "lap records" it'll be easy to do. Even if it has to sacrifice entry speed on slower low df tracks it makes up for it in high hp faster acceleration and chance are that lap for lap you'd be getting ahead on any straights and getting passed on the corners but still having the same lap time or perhaps even faster. (queue me in a non cp m5 on the ring having an e90 m3 up my ass every corner then leaving it in the dust every exit)

[Bimmerfun82]

Originally Posted by R N M

The current M cars may be good on paper but they definitely are not as good from emotional/engagement standpoint compared to older M cars.

I’m sure the EV Ms will be faster etc but will they be more fun to drive?!

💯

No they won’t

[Rafichicago]

Originally Posted by R N M

The current M cars may be good on paper but they definitely are not as good from emotional/engagement standpoint compared to older M cars.

I’m sure the EV Ms will be faster etc but will they be more fun to drive?!

I think that perspective of “fun to drive” changes with age of the owner. People in their low20s could have different perspectives on driving engagement then older generation. Comes down to preference. Seems like so called driving pleasure and enjoyment differes between age group. I am not about the numbers. But some are and I get it.
I’ve said it before and say that again. I’d rather have car that makes me smile every time I drive it for the duration of the trip rather than for 2,6s to 60.

[F32Fleet]

Originally Posted by BMWILUVU

I'd like to see how they expect to make a 5000+lb hog break all the N-ring records. Maybe EV records only.

It's not all records but times set by previous M-models