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      01-21-2021, 09:39 AM   #1
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BMW Targets Higher Margins w/ Simplified Lineup, While Investing in Electrification

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Originally Posted by Reuters
MUNICH (Reuters) - BMW aims to return to its pre-pandemic operating margin target as the global economy recovers, but big investments in electric cars mean the automaker will have to simplify its vehicle portfolio, its finance chief told Reuters.

Nicolas Peter said orders had fallen because of the latest pandemic-related lockdowns, but added: "if activity starts again after the middle of February, we should be able to deliver a reasonable first quarter."

Improving market conditions, a Brexit deal and the German company's plans to increase its share in its Chinese joint venture to 75% from 50% in 2022 should all help push BMW back to its pre-pandemic operating margin target of 8% to 10%.

"We're not talking about far away in the future, but it is a goal that we're looking at systematically in the short term," Peter said during an interview at BMW's Munich headquarters. The company will publish its 2021 margin target in March.

A surge in premium car sales in China, the world's largest autos market, provided much-needed help for BMW's business - it also boosted German rivals Daimler and VolkswagenDE> - and it should report a 2020 operating margin of between 2% and 3%, Peter said.

Changing car line-ups from petrol and diesel to electric versions to meet emissions targets in China and Europe, not to mention trying to compete with electric carmaker Tesla, is hugely expensive, and was a driving factor in the recent merger of PSA and Fiat Chrysler to form Stellantis, the world's fourth-largest carmaker.

Further consolidation is expected as carmakers struggle with electrification and investing in self-driving technology, but Peter said BMW could handle the transition.

"We are very confident we can make it alone," he said.

But because electric vehicles (EV) are expensive to develop and still account for a small portion of sales, they are less profitable for BMW, Peter said.

"That's why investment is so important," he said. "We have to find ways to get to a different cost level, especially with cells and batteries."

So the premium carmaker is embarking on a push to cut complexity - reducing engine variants and options for different vehicles, scrapping features customers don't use, plus overhauling software to focus on a simpler, more efficient way of building vehicles.

In 2020, BMW's global EV sales rose 31.8% versus 2019 and the carmaker says it plans to double its sales of fully-electric vehicles this year.

Traditionally, BMW has considered Germany's other carmakers as its rivals, but Peter said increasingly it is looking to San Francisco and companies like China's Nio Inc - with its focus on interaction between car and driver - for inspiration.

He said that in polls two thirds of Chinese consumers have said they will switch to other brands and products if they provide a better digital experience.

"Those are the themes that have to be in focus," Peter said.
Original Article: https://reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKBN29Q1X1
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      01-21-2021, 10:39 AM   #2
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There are so many ground-up dedicated EV platforms becoming available that BMW's compromised adaptations of ICE platforms will need to be priced lower than a dedicated EV platform to see many sales, IMO.
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      01-21-2021, 11:07 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by ted99 View Post
There are so many ground-up dedicated EV platforms becoming available that BMW's compromised adaptations of ICE platforms will need to be priced lower than a dedicated EV platform to see many sales, IMO.
That's the big question mark here, and you might be correct. We'll finally start to see how this is going to play out later this year since BMW is rolling out both the i4 and iX in the coming months. The rubber hits the road, and it's going to be exciting to watch. As the article states, they want to double EV sales, and I think it's obvious that these two new models are where they expect that movement to happen.
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      01-21-2021, 12:06 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
That's the big question mark here, and you might be correct. We'll finally start to see how this is going to play out later this year since BMW is rolling out both the i4 and iX in the coming months. The rubber hits the road, and it's going to be exciting to watch. As the article states, they want to double EV sales, and I think it's obvious that these two new models are where they expect that movement to happen.
The problem may be that if sales are not good, is it the fault of the car, the marketing, or the grill or some combination thereof?
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      01-21-2021, 12:14 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
That's the big question mark here, and you might be correct. We'll finally start to see how this is going to play out later this year since BMW is rolling out both the i4 and iX in the coming months. The rubber hits the road, and it's going to be exciting to watch. As the article states, they want to double EV sales, and I think it's obvious that these two new models are where they expect that movement to happen.
Has it been confirmed if the i4 is a ground up EV or a shared platform? Or is it shared with the upcoming 4GC? I believe the iX is ground up, and the upcoming i7 and iX1 I would believe are shared platform since each mode will be receiving both ICE and EV powertrains but of course details are still a bit unknown.
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      01-21-2021, 01:18 PM   #6
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Has it been confirmed if the i4 is a ground up EV or a shared platform? Or is it shared with the upcoming 4GC?
It is most definitely an electric G26, just like the iX3 is an electric G01. These vehicles are the first manifestations of the corporate strategy to offer all types of drive for "every" vehicle in the lineup.

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I believe the iX is ground up, and the upcoming i7 and iX1 I would believe are shared platform since each mode will be receiving both ICE and EV powertrains but of course details are still a bit unknown.
To the best of my ability to sift through the marketing smokescreen, I'm pretty convinced that the iX is actually a CLAR vehicle. The platform is, as near as I can tell, essentially the same one that will underpin the rest of the upcoming generation of BMWs, starting with the G70. That they will not offer gasoline, diesel, or PHEV iX models shouldn't by itself misguide us into thinking its something completely different. Once they hit the street, and we have more details, it should be possible to test this hypothesis.

Of course, the premise of a dedicated platform vs. an adapted legacy one will naturally have gray areas, so this could end up being a more difficult question to get a consensus on than one might think. Some degree of hair splitting is likely to take place, especially when other manufacturers (including Mercedes and Ford) are doing what might end up being similar things once all the technicalities are out in the open.

That being said, for now, BMW appears to be the only major player who doesn't seem to have any interest in developing a ground up EV platform to augment their transitional vehicle architectures sometime later this decade. Everyone else, it would appear, has at least some plans for true legacy-free vehicles over the next few years. But, aside from the i3 which has no future, BMW has been silent.
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      01-22-2021, 10:15 AM   #7
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What are the compromises of using an adapted ICE-capable platform over a dedicated platform? A dedicated EV platform generally offers the following:

1) Longer wheelbase for a given overall length giving a better ride over lousy roads.
2) More interior space for a given overall length because of cab-forward design and lack of a center tunnel.
3) "Probably" lower weight.

What are the advantages of using an ICE-capable platform over a dedicated EV platform?

1) Possibly lower cost as the platform can be amortized over a larger production run and no need to tool up a completely different production line.
2) The EV's look more "normal" in their proportions. This could be an advantage in the early days of EV adoption for the general buying public.

Early adopters of electric propulsion technology actually welcomed looking "different". Until the general public realizes the greater space efficiency of the EV-specific platform and it's "cab-forward" look, a more traditional look may be an advantage. Remember how VHS won over technically superior BetaMax for entirely non-technical reasons.

Whether intentional, or the result of having current management make lemon-aid out of lemons left by previous Board decisions, BMW may actually fare well in the transition period with these compromised platforms because it's products look so conventional (grills excepted).
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      01-22-2021, 10:28 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ted99 View Post
What are the compromises of using an adapted ICE-capable platform over a dedicated platform? A dedicated EV platform generally offers the following:

1) Longer wheelbase for a given overall length giving a better ride over lousy roads.
2) More interior space for a given overall length because of cab-forward design and lack of a center tunnel.
3) "Probably" lower weight.

What are the advantages of using an ICE-capable platform over a dedicated EV platform?

1) Possibly lower cost as the platform can be amortized over a larger production run and no need to tool up a completely different production line.
2) The EV's look more "normal" in their proportions. This could be an advantage in the early days of EV adoption for the general buying public.

Early adopters of electric propulsion technology actually welcomed looking "different". Until the general public realizes the greater space efficiency of the EV-specific platform and it's "cab-forward" look, a more traditional look may be an advantage. Remember how VHS won over technically superior BetaMax for entirely non-technical reasons.

Whether intentional, or the result of having current management make lemon-aid out of lemons left by previous Board decisions, BMW may actually fare well in the transition period with these compromised platforms because it's products look so conventional (grills excepted).
I don't think its EV platforms that are causing EV's to be ugly, manufacturers are simply trying to be aerodynamic as well as space efficient while having their EV's "stand out" more than regular models, and in order to do so, they try to push new and unusual designs on the public.

EV's can still look great and very "ICE" like as the Mustang Mach-E, Model S, and Porsche Taycan have shown us.
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      01-22-2021, 11:29 AM   #9
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My view is the only way EVs will become the norm is through legislation. This has been shown to be the case with safety (seatbelts and airbags), fuel economy and emissions.

EVs are not being demanded by consumers in a meaningful way. That’s a big reason some EVs are polarizing, because they aren’t developed based on consumer desires. When sustained and meaningful EV legislation is put in place, carmakers will develop desirable and effective EVs with similar economic impact (price, cost) as outgoing ICE vehicles.

I will be one of the last people pumping gasoline. EVs in the present embodiment do not meet my transportation requirements, given the alternative choices available today.
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      01-22-2021, 11:55 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ted99 View Post
What are the compromises of using an adapted ICE-capable platform over a dedicated platform? A dedicated EV platform generally offers the following:

1) Longer wheelbase for a given overall length giving a better ride over lousy roads.
2) More interior space for a given overall length because of cab-forward design and lack of a center tunnel.
3) "Probably" lower weight.

What are the advantages of using an ICE-capable platform over a dedicated EV platform?

1) Possibly lower cost as the platform can be amortized over a larger production run and no need to tool up a completely different production line.
2) The EV's look more "normal" in their proportions. This could be an advantage in the early days of EV adoption for the general buying public.

Early adopters of electric propulsion technology actually welcomed looking "different". Until the general public realizes the greater space efficiency of the EV-specific platform and it's "cab-forward" look, a more traditional look may be an advantage. Remember how VHS won over technically superior BetaMax for entirely non-technical reasons.

Whether intentional, or the result of having current management make lemon-aid out of lemons left by previous Board decisions, BMW may actually fare well in the transition period with these compromised platforms because it's products look so conventional (grills excepted).
If you design a new EV platform you can make the car look like whatever you want. Only reason Tesla's or whatever looks different is that is what they decided to design and build. Only reason to use an existing platform for an EV is cost and I think every Engineer would say EV's are so different than the ICE that to optimize it the best thing is to start over.

With the benefit of cost using the existing platform I think BMW will struggle as "value" isn't what they are good at and cross shopping EV's, this will put BMW at a disadvantage.

Honda/Acura went the other route and is using the GM platform

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a3...da%20vehicles.

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This report lines up with official news out of Honda and GM that the two automakers would team up to build two electric vehicles and the first would go on sale in 2024. In both of these instances, it's likely that, as noted by Honda back when the partnership was announced, Honda will design the vehicles and the Ultium battery platform powering them will be engineered to support Honda’s driving character.
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      01-23-2021, 11:05 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stein_325i View Post
I don't think its EV platforms that are causing EV's to be ugly, manufacturers are simply trying to be aerodynamic as well as space efficient while having their EV's "stand out" more than regular models, and in order to do so, they try to push new and unusual designs on the public.

EV's can still look great and very "ICE" like as the Mustang Mach-E, Model S, and Porsche Taycan have shown us.
I'm not suggesting that EV's look "ugly". I quite like the iPace, eTron, and Taycan and think the VW ID.4 is really attractive. But, I don't like the jellybean looks of the Model Y. I even bought one of the first i3 models. My point was that the EV's DO look "different" and that was a plus for early adopters, but unknown what effect it will have on mainstream buyers in the near term, which is BMW's window for selling it's ICE-adapted platforms. In the long term, better get used to it because that's where we are headed. I'll have a very nice fully-loaded, low mileage BMW 530e to sell to the "lost causers".
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      01-25-2021, 09:31 AM   #12
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They needed to simplify their lineup a while ago. Too many convertible variations of cars that don't need convertible variations.
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      01-25-2021, 09:37 AM   #13
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They needed to simplify their lineup a while ago. Too many convertible variations of cars that don't need convertible variations.
That is currently happening. The 2er Vert, 8er Coupe and Vert, as well as the Z4 are all likely to not see another generation. 4er Vert will be the sole remaining convertible in the lineup.
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      01-25-2021, 11:27 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by stein_325i View Post
I read this as, maybe BMW shouldn't have made the 3GT, 4GT, 5GT, 6GT, etc lol

Translation:

"maybe if we stop making cars that nobody wants we can be more profitable"
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      01-25-2021, 01:45 PM   #15
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The problem may be that if sales are not good, is it the fault of the car, the marketing, or the grill or some combination thereof?
Yep, I hope sales are really good, otherwise it's gonna be hard to know what went wrong. I totally understand the need to focus on EV. BMW lost the plot here, even though they had an early lead with the i3.

What I do not understand is why BMW has to throw out everything they have been so successful at and create models like the iX. I don't mean to offend anyone who finds the iX amazing. I just think the X3 looks so much better in my eyes. An EV can look like a regular car, with some better aerodynamics to reduce drag. That's it. No need for weird stuff and giant grills. Otherwise, with polarizing looks you reduce adoption. At least for me, I don't really want to drive a weird looking car, electric or not. It's such a pitty to have all the amazing technology get wrapped up in a package that polarizes the customer base. I would have gladly traded my Tesla Model S for an i4 if the i4 looked more like the M340i.

Looks aside, I think BMW has a long road ahead. I really do hope they can do it alone, without a merger.
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      01-25-2021, 02:29 PM   #16
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Yep, I hope sales are really good, otherwise it's gonna be hard to know what went wrong. I totally understand the need to focus on EV. BMW lost the plot here, even though they had an early lead with the i3.

What I do not understand is why BMW has to throw out everything they have been so successful at and create models like the iX. I don't mean to offend anyone who finds the iX amazing. I just think the X3 looks so much better in my eyes. An EV can look like a regular car, with some better aerodynamics to reduce drag. That's it. No need for weird stuff and giant grills. Otherwise, with polarizing looks you reduce adoption. At least for me, I don't really want to drive a weird looking car, electric or not. It's such a pitty to have all the amazing technology get wrapped up in a package that polarizes the customer base. I would have gladly traded my Tesla Model S for an i4 if the i4 looked more like the M340i.

Looks aside, I think BMW has a long road ahead. I really do hope they can do it alone, without a merger.
I hope so also but I have my doubts. It appears that the leadership of the company has doubled down on the idea that they know what is best for their customers...period. The change back and forth on the turn signal control, the reverse tach with no option for an alternative (even though it is an LED display that can receive lots of different versions) and the ugly grill. Add to that selling a fwd car as a 2 series and I think BMW has really lost its way.
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      01-25-2021, 02:43 PM   #17
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This article highlights what every car manufacturer has always faced.

To fuel growth: must reaching towards every potential market segment and customer. Product mix becomes more complex increasing costs. "Top line absolves the sins of the bottom line".

GM tried to be everything to everyone but could not for many reasons, including many which were self-inflicted during Roger Smith era.

To reposition and compete: the required investment comes from 2 sources - internal cost savings and corporate debt.

BMW is no different than any other car manufacturer.

"Reducing engine variants and options for different vehicles, scrapping features customers don't use" must be executed very carefully in order not to alienate core customers.
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      01-25-2021, 02:54 PM   #18
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      01-25-2021, 02:55 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveinArizona View Post
I hope so also but I have my doubts. It appears that the leadership of the company has doubled down on the idea that they know what is best for their customers...period.
I'm sure if you asked any BMW owner in 1999 whether they believe BMW should start building more light trucks than cars, they'd say "what?".
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      01-25-2021, 03:20 PM   #20
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I'm sure if you asked any BMW owner in 1999 whether they believe BMW should start building more light trucks than cars, they'd say "what?".
Understood but not analogous.
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      01-25-2021, 03:28 PM   #21
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I don't know whether BMW understands the importance of this transition. Until now, they could benefit from their "better" and "purer" ICE architecture to present a car that appeals to drivers. This came at the cost of interiour space, mechanical complexity and assembly costs.

But now, the game has changed entirely and all manufacturers are put on the same level. Polestar China, Hyundai Korea and others are working on universal platforms that they're willing to sell to increase advantage of scale. There is no longer a compromise to build a drivers car: it's just a preference between soft and reduced dynamic capability or hard and increased dynamic capability. On top, power is (almost) free, the limitation is more in the battery that has to be able to deliver incredible current bursts. But also this is a market universal challenge, not a brand specific one.

So a major part of the BMW heritage has become obsolete for the future. Building a shared platform starting from the design rules from the past doesn't seem a good start to me.
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      01-25-2021, 03:50 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danf72 View Post
Yep, I hope sales are really good, otherwise it's gonna be hard to know what went wrong. I totally understand the need to focus on EV. BMW lost the plot here, even though they had an early lead with the i3.

What I do not understand is why BMW has to throw out everything they have been so successful at and create models like the iX. I don't mean to offend anyone who finds the iX amazing. I just think the X3 looks so much better in my eyes. An EV can look like a regular car, with some better aerodynamics to reduce drag. That's it. No need for weird stuff and giant grills. Otherwise, with polarizing looks you reduce adoption. At least for me, I don't really want to drive a weird looking car, electric or not. It's such a pitty to have all the amazing technology get wrapped up in a package that polarizes the customer base. I would have gladly traded my Tesla Model S for an i4 if the i4 looked more like the M340i.

Looks aside, I think BMW has a long road ahead. I really do hope they can do it alone, without a merger.
Dan, you da-man who get's that BMW's plan isn't gonna work out

Couldn't have said it better. You nailed it. I would trade in my Model 3P had the i4 or iX not look like the designer forgotten where he was working. Sorry, this is BMW, not Audi or VAG.
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