[Rhidium]

Originally Posted by Smgs1992

So i may have gone a bit overboard today and bought 200rds of hollowpoints and 100rds of fmj in 9mm
Picked up some gold dots and Sig VCrown so i’m interested to see how these perform

It's not overboard.. Just cost too much. 🤣

[1MOREMOD]

Originally Posted by Rhidium

It's not overboard.. Just cost too much. 🤣

Yeah exactly have 3k rounds of 9mm rarely even shoot one

[Smgs1992]

Originally Posted by Rhidium

It's not overboard.. Just cost too much. 🤣

😂 the hollowpoints honestly i didnt think were that overpriced or much different than before the pandemic. I paid $0.80per round
The FMJ was $0.60 per round but i wanted to be able to shoot today

[chassis]

Originally Posted by fiveohwblow

Appreciate the insight. If this is a repeat occurrence, why have many more not thought ahead and became manufacturers of the primers themselves rather than rely on the thin distribution? Is it difficult to do so? Even so, doesn't seem like a bad business idea but there has to be something I am missing...

Maybe Rhidium can comment on this.

Ammo demand is cyclic, similar to a commodity. That means capital investment in new production capacity (factory space, machinery) is a risky proposition.

Additionally, I imagine there is open/unused capacity available for ammo production when looking at average demand over a multi-year period. This means new production capacity is not truly "needed" but rather a nicety for consumers.

Consumers binge buy ammo based on fear. It would be a speculative and risky investment to buy into a fear play.

In addition to the above, not everyone wants to invest in a highly regulated and potentially dangerous (property and injury damage) business.

[unluky]

Originally Posted by Smgs1992

So i may have gone a bit overboard today and bought 200rds of hollowpoints and 100rds of fmj in 9mm
Picked up some gold dots and Sig VCrown so i’m interested to see how these perform

Nope - grab them when you can - even is a little over priced.

The Sig VCrowns are a very nice round - well engineered. I worked at Sierra when Sig approached us to partner for that ammo. They brought in the initial design for the core and we designed the jacket and bonding crimp over several iterations. They flat work. I have seen them shot through every media (FBI called and not) and they perform. Very accurate round as well - which Sierra is known for.

We tried to get the lightest 9mm bullet (90 gr) to pass FBI protocol out of a .380 - which was unheard of. You have to shoot X many through all their media and X amount of them have to pass 100% to make it. We repeated the test 3 times (because we are guys and we are curious) and one time it missed by 2 failures and twice it missed by one. Crazy performance out of a .380.

Bullet technology has all but ended the debate on caliber. Choose your caliber and then choose the right ammo - and you will be well heeled.

I think you will be happy with them. Same guy that did the engineering for Federal on the Hydra-Shok years ago designed the core for the V-Crowns for Sig.

[unluky]

Originally Posted by chassis

Maybe Rhidium can comment on this.

Ammo demand is cyclic, similar to a commodity. That means capital investment in new production capacity (factory space, machinery) is a risky proposition.

Additionally, I imagine there is open/unused capacity available for ammo production when looking at average demand over a multi-year period. This means new production capacity is not truly "needed" but rather a nicety for consumers.

Consumers binge buy ammo based on fear. It would be a speculative and risky investment to buy into a fear play.

In addition to the above, not everyone wants to invest in a highly regulated and potentially dangerous (property and injury damage) business.

100% correct. In a "normal" year - the industry has probably double the capacity it needs and idles equipment regularly. The cost of machinery to make projectiles and brass, while expensive, is not prohibitively so. Not a huge deal to build a few more presses and let them sit till you need them. Manpower can be very difficult and has been extremely tough this year. COVID and our our government competing with us for workers has made it tough for all of us to hire.

The big issues come from the lynchpin items like primers and powder. Primer lines are VERY expensive and their production is very dangerous as well. You are basically handling a brick of C4 all day and one slip means everyone in the room vaporizes. They work in a room the is drizzling water on you all day to keep static out and many drag a rod from their waist on the ground as extra precaution. Every one of them I have ever visited I think - what a miserable job.

Powder production happens in very few places around the world as well - so ramping it up quickly is almost impossible. It is also hard to ship, so just putting 5 times more on a ship is not allowed either.

Once you run out of either of these - it really does not matter if you have brass or bullets anymore.

Same with 22LR lines - VERY expensive to build and only made in certain places. CCI makes it for a LOT of companies. That is why when the run started for 22LR back in 2013 - there just was no scaling it up. You got what you got.

Plus everyone knows people are not SHOOTING more - they are just BUYING more - so the slack will come out of the rope and you'll be standing there with your peepee in your hand and a 50 million bill for the capacity you just added and no demand. 2017 was a pretty slow year and a lot of new companies folded up and some older ones that went too hard paid the price. Ellett Brothers was a prime example of what happens when you roll the dice during a busy year - and the next one goes dry. A thriving company since 1933 - just over bought and mismanaged. Very sad.

What scares me about this one is the chain of triggering moments that already have us all maxed out - and I believe the worst is yet to come. Nothing spurs it like legislative talk and it is coming for sure. I've been in this for 30 years and I have never seen a huge run start AFTER the entire supply chain has been drained and backlogged.

It is going to get very ugly indeed.

[Rhidium]

Inconsistencies in the market is a very bad thing for a company. It can totally destroy a company if they plan wrong. We lost a lot of good companies during Trump being president (no fault on him) due to knowing he wasn't going to ban firearms like the democrats.

As for primer and startups I have no clue but I would imagine starting up a company like that would be expensive and difficult. That is some dangerous stuff. Insurance, safety protocol training, cost of equipment, cost of getting recognized, etc would be cost prohibiting for many. Not to mention the volatility of the market..

[Smgs1992]

Originally Posted by unluky

Nope - grab them when you can - even is a little over priced.

The Sig VCrowns are a very nice round - well engineered. I worked at Sierra when Sig approached us to partner for that ammo. They brought in the initial design for the core and we designed the jacket and bonding crimp over several iterations. They flat work. I have seen them shot through every media (FBI called and not) and they perform. Very accurate round as well - which Sierra is known for.

We tried to get the lightest 9mm bullet (90 gr) to pass FBI protocol out of a .380 - which was unheard of. You have to shoot X many through all their media and X amount of them have to pass 100% to make it. We repeated the test 3 times (because we are guys and we are curious) and one time it missed by 2 failures and twice it missed by one. Crazy performance out of a .380.

Bullet technology has all but ended the debate on caliber. Choose your caliber and then choose the right ammo - and you will be well heeled.

I think you will be happy with them. Same guy that did the engineering for Federal on the Hydra-Shok years ago designed the core for the V-Crowns for Sig.

Yeah i started looking up the Sig ammo and it’s pretty well liked. I’ve always carried the tried and true Gold Dots, HST and Hornady. But i wont feel like i have underperforming ammo with this.

So i went to the range and put 100rds through my new Sig M18 and the first few mags i had failure to lock back. After that though it started functioning flawlessly. Any ideas why though? Just a break in period for a new gun? I was shooting 115gr so i also considered it couldve been light ammo but like i said it started working fine after a couple mags.

[MBM340]

I use a Sig P229 for cc and I have a Ruger GP100 357 Magnum Revolver for home defense.
Not being a "gun" guy I need something that will absolutely go "bang" when I pull the trigger to protect the fam.
I know most people say a shotgun is better so I am working on that, but for now I loaded 38 Sp +p to keep the flash down inside the house if it needs to be used.
I figure with two speed loaders I should be ok. Frankly if I have to fire more than 6 rounds we are going to require more firepower that just me at that point anyway.

[unluky]

Yeah i started looking up the Sig ammo and it’s pretty well liked. I’ve always carried the tried and true Gold Dots, HST and Hornady. But i wont feel like i have underperforming ammo with this.

So i went to the range and put 100rds through my new Sig M18 and the first few mags i had failure to lock back. After that though it started functioning flawlessly. Any ideas why though? Just a break in period for a new gun? I was shooting 115gr so i also considered it couldve been light ammo but like i said it started working fine after a couple mags.[/QUOTE


The gun locking back after last shot is triggered by the spring in the mag pushing up on the slide lock after the last round is fired. so sometimes you will see this change from mag to mag. If the spring is getting weak, the mag is not oiled properly, or just a slight misalignment can cause this sometimes. With the new gun I'm sure it's just as you said everything just needed to be worked out a little.

If it happens often tear apart the mag and look for anything that's not allowing the magazine follower to slide in the magazine body freely. a light coat of oil or a small bit of sanding here and there will usually get a sticking mag working smoothly.

It's almost never a firearm issue, so don't worry about the gun. I have a Sig P320 myself and it is a very nice firearm indeed. I think you will love it.

[unluky]

Originally Posted by MBM340

I use a Sig P229 for cc and I have a Ruger GP100 357 Magnum Revolver for home defense.
Not being a "gun" guy I need something that will absolutely go "bang" when I pull the trigger to protect the fam.
I know most people say a shotgun is better so I am working on that, but for now I loaded 38 Sp +p to keep the flash down inside the house if it needs to be used.
I figure with two speed loaders I should be ok. Frankly if I have to fire more than 6 rounds we are going to require more firepower that just me at that point anyway.

The 229 is a great gun isn't it? I've always been a Sig fan. I currently have a 226 in 40, a 320 in 9, and a 365 I carry daily. Their guns just fit my hands perfectly.

229 is a pretty big hoss for daily carry, but at least you know you have plenty of Firepower!

[MBM340]

Originally Posted by unluky

The 229 is a great gun isn't it? I've always been a Sig fan. I currently have a 226 in 40, a 320 in 9, and a 365 I carry daily. Their guns just fit my hands perfectly.

229 is a pretty big hoss for daily carry, but at least you know you have plenty of Firepower!

Yes really like the Sig, I figured at the time I bought it the SEALS were using Sigs, so if it was good enough for them...

I like the Ruger a lot too, but it a heavy piece.

[Smgs1992]

Originally Posted by unluky

The 229 is a great gun isn't it? I've always been a Sig fan. I currently have a 226 in 40, a 320 in 9, and a 365 I carry daily. Their guns just fit my hands perfectly.

229 is a pretty big hoss for daily carry, but at least you know you have plenty of Firepower!

Yeah so far i’m loving the 320 it’s gonna be mainly my fall/winter carry switching between my Glock 23 when it get’s really cold(.40 imo offers better penetration for thick clothing)

How do you like the 365? I’d like to add one to my collection for a EDC during warmer months. I just worry it’s a tad bit small. Currently i use a Taurus G2C which i feel is the perfect size for EDC

[-Vanguard-]

When I traded in my old car for my new X6, my salesman called me the next day and said you left a box of ammo in your trunk spare tire areas.

It was 9mm federal american eagle lol. Saved me a solid $40-50.

[REB_TN_15]

I'll contribute to the Sig love fest. My wife wanted a 380 carry pistol and after a few iterations we found the P238. 1911 style single stack 380. Sweet little piece. They played with the spring to make it easy to rack, and the recoil is really light. I have a 45 1911, 9mm G26, and the P238, and honestly there are times when I leave the range where it's my favorite piece. Pretty accurate for a 3" barrel, comes with tritium night sights, and due to the low recoil it's the quickest back on target of the three. Of course they're pretty proud of those puppies so you'll pay for them, but if I was convinced that all I'd need is 8 rounds of 380 ammo it would win hands down as a CC weapon.

[chowser51]

pics of my sigs which i never shoot anymore

P229 in 357SIG



P228 next to my Glock 35 which I never shoot anymore either.

[Rhidium]

Originally Posted by Smgs1992

Yeah i started looking up the Sig ammo and it’s pretty well liked. I’ve always carried the tried and true Gold Dots, HST and Hornady. But i wont feel like i have underperforming ammo with this.

So i went to the range and put 100rds through my new Sig M18 and the first few mags i had failure to lock back. After that though it started functioning flawlessly. Any ideas why though? Just a break in period for a new gun? I was shooting 115gr so i also considered it couldve been light ammo but like i said it started working fine after a couple mags.

Typically fail to lock back is operator error.. Riding the release by accident.
I suppose it could be a breaking if it stopped failing. I'd take a look at the internals now and polish the contact parts to make it run smoother.
Could also be a weak spring, but doubt that's it.
Magazine follower getting jammed and not pushing up lever.. Don't think it would be this, but it could happen.
Ammo as well.

[EezyBeezy]

Nice. Been looking for pew pew sub on here. I was beginning to think BP is anti-pew lol

[Smgs1992]

Originally Posted by Rhidium

Typically fail to lock back is operator error.. Riding the release by accident.
I suppose it could be a breaking if it stopped failing. I'd take a look at the internals now and polish the contact parts to make it run smoother.
Could also be a weak spring, but doubt that's it.
Magazine follower getting jammed and not pushing up lever.. Don't think it would be this, but it could happen.
Ammo as well.

I dont shoot with a very high grip so it shouldnt be caused by riding the release. I’m probably gonna buy some more rounds soon and take it out again just to be sure it’s all good.
I’m wondering maybe a stiff recoil spring with light ammo and it just needed a small break in period

[jamesinaz]

Originally Posted by Smgs1992

I dont shoot with a very high grip so it shouldnt be caused by riding the release. I’m probably gonna buy some more rounds soon and take it out again just to be sure it’s all good.
I’m wondering maybe a stiff recoil spring with light ammo and it just needed a small break in period

No idea if it is related but I owned a Sig 220. When I bought it I lived in CA and had little experience with firearms. I bought it for home defense and loaded the magazine but did not chamber a round thinking if things go bump in the night I'd rack the slide and be good to go. Mind you - I never shot it. And again, was very inexperienced with weapons.

Fast forward I moved to AZ and shooting was much more acceptable here so I went to a range to see if I could hit anything with this Sig. Stood on the line. Racked the slide. Pulled the trigger. Click. No go boom.

Hmmm. Rack the slide again. Pull trigger. Click.

Called over a helpful range officer (early Tuesday AM few shooters so he had lots of time). Turns out the springs were so stiff it would not chamber a round. I had to empty the magazine, put one bullet back in it and THEN it would chamber the round when I racked the slide. Slowly I added more rounds until after about 100 rounds downrange I could load a full mag and it would function.

Two things from that story. One was I learned a valuable lesson that guns cant be relied on unless you have tested them. You don't seem to need to learn this as you are already testing your weapon and ammo. You are way ahead of where I was then.

The second was I couldn't hit shit, I thought it was like the movies but when I started shooting the safest place to stand was at the target,

But the other point is maybe it is stiff springs. Maybe it is a Sig thing. I don't know. Only other Sigs I ever bought were rifles and they have been flawless.

[helmet91]

SIG shooter checking in... I have an M11A1 (fancy 229), Mk25 (fancy 226), and a P239. Not to mention a 556 rifle and 556 SBR, both with "classic" furniture. The Mk25 is a great suppressor host - not as awesome as my HK USP45 Tactical, but still pretty awesome.

I'd really like to build up a clone of the new Danish military P320, perhaps after the holidays.

[Hawkeye]

Originally Posted by EezyBeezy

Nice. Been looking for pew pew sub on here. I was beginning to think BP is anti-pew lol

Oh it is, we only get this one sub haha.

Here was me testing my new gear this weekend, got a nice fat doe... will be great to enjoy over the holidays!