BMW M4 Car and Driver Lightning Lap times are out

[gthal]

Originally Posted by Blipit_

Reading comprehension is hard for some.

So...Super Sports on the M3/M4 got even more work than just compound change like the C7.

Or maybe less work overall... we don't know what specific changes were made or how significant they were.

I'll reserve judgement until after I get the M4 to the track in a few weeks and I can see how the PSS on the M4 hold up there versus those on the C7.

[gthal]

Originally Posted by FogCityM3

Anyone thinking that the Vette's are more like R-comps than other PSS's is delusional. Doesn't even make logical sense.

Yeah, OK

Explain to me why it doesn't make logical sense? Michelin has been adjusting specific tires for specific cars for a long time. When it is specifically noted by various sources that the compound in the C7 Z51 PSS is approaching an R compound vs the regular PSS compound, I guess it could just be a big lie and some could then be delusional for buying it... I guess

In any event, this debate is getting a little silly and it doesn't really matter at this point... let's just say the PSS is a really good dual purpose tire and call it a day

[Kurt_OH]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

The MB E63's time is the one that impresses me the most

Yea, that 4100lb car going that fast is incredible. Clearly the track favors HP over handling, or the Cayman S would be higher and the AMGs would be lower.

I doubt it would make much difference to the ///M as it is excellent in both categories.

[Kurt_OH]

Originally Posted by gthal

Gotta love the Z28 and props to GM for building a real track car!! Putting up GTR numbers in a big, heavy package is impressive!

The Camaro puts up GT-R numbers, while carrying GT-R weight. But it does have less HP and better tires/brakes.

[DieGrüneHölle]

Originally Posted by gthal

In any event, this debate is getting a little silly and it doesn't really matter at this point... let's just say the PSS is a really good dual purpose tire and call it a day

It is a bit silly...it really doesn't matter. The gap was a gigantic 6.9 seconds.

Both cars running some sort of modified Michelin Pilot Super Sports.

[FogCityM3]

Thought I made it clear.. on the Michelin product guide, its ONE PSS TIRE.its one dry grip rating, one wet grip rating, one braking rating, doesn't matter the manufacturer...if there were a significant difference, why call it a PSS that's what Sport Cups /+ are for and guess what, they charge more for it, as any rational tire manufacturer does for a more racing type compound. Compounds are a little different and optimized for the vehicle..that's it. It's not like you're getting a racing tire for the same price of a road tire, that would also be a dumb move for marketing/price differentiation on Michelin's part. None of it objectively makes sense yes a quite silly debate for what at most may be 1 sec difference due to different PSS tires. I'm really not understanding the need to make heroic assumptions/excuses whenever a car is faster than the M4...really, so what? They're both great cars with different purposes. Throughout history the M3 always had faster rivals.

Originally Posted by gthal

Yeah, OK

Explain to me why it doesn't make logical sense? Michelin has been adjusting specific tires for specific cars for a long time. When it is specifically noted by various sources that the compound in the C7 Z51 PSS is approaching an R compound vs the regular PSS compound, I guess it could just be a big lie and some could then be delusional for buying it... I guess

In any event, this debate is getting a little silly and it doesn't really matter at this point... let's just say the PSS is a really good dual purpose tire and call it a day

[RPiM5]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

The MB E63's time is the one that impresses me the most

Yes indeed. And a Comp Pack M5 is quicker than the E63.

I was a bit surprised by the Cayman S time though.

[gabriele]

smaller M2 between M4 and M235i times, on par or better than a M3 E92? need to test drive that car before upgrading my current M to 2 or 4.

[fusionchicken]

Wow huge delta btwn the stingray and m4

[gthal]

Originally Posted by FogCityM3

I'm really not understanding the need to make heroic assumptions/excuses whenever a car is faster than the M4...really, so what? They're both great cars with different purposes. Throughout history the M3 always had faster rivals.

I thought we were having a debate specifically about the PSS tire?

It wasn't about excuses for the M4 vs. C7 performance as, you correctly state, the tire difference isn't material. Besides, the spread does not surprise me one bit... had the M4 done better relative to the C7 I would have been very surprised.

[FormulaMMM]

Stingray is impressive. Expect the Z06 will be near hypercar quick. Unreal.

[Jorgem2009]

wow, the big surprise here is the m235i, similar times to the CTV-V, beating the IS-F which sometimes gets compared to the m3

[gthal]

Originally Posted by FormulaMMM

Stingray is impressive. Expect the Z06 will be near hypercar quick. Unreal.

+1... there will be few cars at ANY price that will be on a similar level as the Z06 for performance. As GM stated, the FIRST time the Z06 ran on the track it was faster than the C6 ZR1 and that was an early development car

[414M3]

The amount of buthurt and self-defense on the forum is hilarious. Why can't you guys just accept that GM made a good car and be satisfied with the performance with your M3/M4. No need to nitpick the differences in tires are and how that contributed to the delta.

None of us will never even approach these limits vs. a Corvette on the street and rarely on the track. Bravo to the American manufacturers for finally bringing out sports cars that can handle. Just too bad it'll be harder to win those armchair debates on who's car is faster

Also it's funny how a lot of people hated on American manufactures for not making cars that could turn, but now that they're here, find any way to put them down.

[raffyg2388]

Nice improvement over the e92. Thanks for sharing.

Btw is there a time for the m5 cp? E63 time is damn impressive considering how much it wieghs.

[ssabripo]

Originally Posted by BK

The work done at VIR was repaving and widening to make it a faster track, so times this year may not be comparable to prior years.

According to this thread on a Corvette forum, the faster cars at a NASA event were running about 2 seconds quicker per lap than in prior years.

excellent point I was going to mention, given some of the times posted.

so in reality, the M4 is approximately 2-3 seconds faster around this 4.1 track than the outgoing e9X M's.

[cs4444]

Not surprised the Corvette and Camero are considerably quicker their tires are considerably wider, and they have better power to weight ratios by nearly a pound. 8.4 for the M4 vs 7.4 for the vette! The M4 time is impressive none the less as it did beat quite a few cars that had better power to weight ratios. Also very impressed with the E63 AMG it was 3 seconds faster than the Audi RS7! On the other side its impressive the M4 was only 2.5 slower than the R8 V10 plus.

[ssabripo]

Originally Posted by 414M3

The amount of buthurt and self-defense on the forum is hilarious. Why can't you guys just accept that GM made a good car and be satisfied with the performance with your M3/M4. No need to nitpick the differences in tires are and how that contributed to the delta.

None of us will never even approach these limits vs. a Corvette on the street and rarely on the track. Bravo to the American manufacturers for finally bringing out sports cars that can handle. Just too bad it'll be harder to win those armchair debates on who's car is faster

Also it's funny how a lot of people hated on American manufactures for not making cars that could turn, but now that they're here, find any way to put them down.

+1000000000000000

stereotypical behavior of BMW "fans" of today, where they need to shit on anything and everything that is not their current car - be it past BMW's or american cars that are not supposed to be better, etc - to justify their purchase and their online feelings.


I for one look at these results and immediately think:

• the new M3/M4 is a good improvement over the previous gen, and ensures BMW is going in the right direction
• take into account the repaving and wider track (~2sec) and this shows how great previous gen BMW cars were as well, like the e92 M3
• american cars have come a loooooooooooong way, and are true contenders now! That base stingray and the Z/28 are monsters!
• oh Porsche...why art thou so good

[Reckamech]

Originally Posted by 414M3

The amount of buthurt and self-defense on the forum is hilarious. Why can't you guys just accept that GM made a good car and be satisfied with the performance with your M3/M4. No need to nitpick the differences in tires are and how that contributed to the delta.

None of us will never even approach these limits vs. a Corvette on the street and rarely on the track. Bravo to the American manufacturers for finally bringing out sports cars that can handle. Just too bad it'll be harder to win those armchair debates on who's car is faster

Also it's funny how a lot of people hated on American manufactures for not making cars that could turn, but now that they're here, find any way to put them down.

I could not have said it better myself. You are right on point. I love BMW but the guys on the forum are really upset. CTS-V Sport out does the M235. Camaro Z28 posts super car numbers and the Vette is still proving to be no joke. All I gotta say is GO GM!!!!! With that being said the M5 is still my favorite car. In a small defense of the M4 the Merc E63 is AWD.

[Bosozoku]

Originally Posted by MaynardZed

... I think the M4 did amazing considering its 300 utg street tire. The camaro for example comes from factory with a 60 utg r compound tire.

Agree. There's also day-to-day drivability, build quality, and long-term durability heavily in the M4's favor.
(And no, I don't care how many Transformers films a car has been in.)

[ProbyOne]

Originally Posted by gthal

Understood... so do we know what they did to the compound? Is it like an R compound similar to what is on the C7? At this point, there is no F8X specific tire on Tire Rack... just the normal PSS. Maybe it isn't available yet? The Z51 PSS was available for the Corvette within weeks of the car's launch. It surprises me that there isn't a specific OEM M3/4 tire shown there yet for the car if one was coming.

All I'm saying is we KNOW the PSS on the C7 Z51 is much more aggressive compound than the regular PSS. For the M3/4, we don't know what was changed, if it was significant, or what it does to the performance of the tire.

Actually the new M3/4 PSS is on tirerack now!

I was buying 275/35/19 rear tires for the E93 M3 two days ago and noticed two separate PSS listings with different prices for the same size. The Michelin website now also has a spec table which shows -2 lbs delta per tire.

[musc]

Solid time and nice improvement over the outgoing M3. If the C7 base is that fast the new Z06 should be pretty amazing.