BMW M4 Car and Driver Lightning Lap times are out

[turbo8765]

Originally Posted by gthal

They are PSS like the M4 BUT with a tread compound specific to the C7... outside portion of the tire is effectively an R compound. The PSS for the Corvette are different than any other version of the PSS. This has been pretty well documented.

The non-Z51 C7 uses the PSS in the regular compound which would likely be similar to the M4. GM talked a lot about how they didn't need to go wider because of the grip of the special compound PSS in the Z51.

Personally I think it's GM marketing. These PSSs are "special".

Durometer readings for both tires are essentially the same.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

The MB E63's time is the one that impresses me the most

Yes. A sedan that managed to outgun the M4 and a very heavy sedan at that.

The other impressive time on the list is the Z28. Yes it's been built for the track - barely livable for the street - but its got an awesome price/performance ratio either way. The most impressive part is that it's all built on chassis that does duty as a family car when dressed in other clothing. The next closest car built on as versatile underpinnings is the E63 and it's 9 seconds slower.

Next year, I think the C7 Z06 is going to embarrass that new $1M+ record holder.

[turbo8765]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

- barely livable for the street -

Other than the tires, I don't see why?

[///MCFC]

wow stingray is immense! the z06 is going to absolutely muller anything south of a P1/918/LaF.

[M3 Esq]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

Yes. A sedan that managed to outgun the M4 and a very heavy sedan at that.

The other impressive time on the list is the Z28. Yes it's been built for the track - barely livable for the street - but its got an awesome price/performance ratio either way. The most impressive part is that it's all built on chassis that does duty as a family car when dressed in other clothing. The next closest car built on as versatile underpinnings is the E63 and it's 9 seconds slower.

Next year, I think the C7 Z06 is going to embarrass that new $1M+ record holder.

Agreed, very impressive. The american car makers in general are really stepping up their game. If you see these cars on track you had better be watching your mirrors.

[onatuesday]

Originally Posted by M3 Esq

Agreed, very impressive. The american car makers in general are really stepping up their game. If you see these cars on track you had better be watching your mirrors.

If you read the comments for the two baby Fords (Fiesta and Focus ST) they score extremely high in fun factor despite being fwd (in fact they handle more like rwd cars) even if they don't have the fastest times.

Also the CTS V-Sport's time was quicker than the m235i (roughly the same price range) so you can imagine how fast the CTS-V will be. Impressive showing from the Americans all around indeed

[///MCFC]

Originally Posted by trinim3

Also the CTS V-Sport's time was quicker than the m235i (roughly the same price range) so you can imagine how fast the CTS-V will be.

pls help me to understand how $44k and $60k are "roughly the same price". thx.

[jc05e46m3]

Originally Posted by gthal

I don't think it will end badly... the M4 did really well IMO... well enough that owners should be happy and well enough the negative nancies have nothing really to complain about.

Wait, what am I saying... of course this will end badly, I was in my imaginary happy place when I wrote the comment above and just woke up to reality

Was it something like this?

[MaynardZed]

Originally Posted by M3 Esq

Agreed, very impressive. The american car makers in general are really stepping up their game. If you see these cars on track you had better be watching your mirrors.

Meh, both nice cars, but haven't been too impressed with the C7's I've seen at the track so far IRL. Probably its because newer drivers that bought the C7 thinking it would be really fast just don't know how to drive it yet. The C6 Z06's are still way quicker, hell my E36 is quicker than the C7's I've seen so far.

As far as the Camaro Z28, they are $100K still because of rarity and markups, so we can stop saying how much of a bargain they for the time being. The regular SS Camaros are slow as hell on the track and the ZL1 is not much better. Remains to be seen if real guys at the club racing level will be able get a lot more out of the Z28. Sadly, the vast majority of the Z28's will be garage queens, because Chevy guys think they will be collector items.

I'd take my chances in the M4 against either of these cars with a proper track tire, alignment, and track brake pads.

[pgviper]

2014 Car and Driver lightning lap times are in.

Mods, please remove if i'm not allowed to attach a link to another forum but on the 5th gen camaro forum, one of the guys scanned in all of the pages. It can be found here... http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=376054

M4 didn't do that bad. It got killed by the stingray and z/28 but compared to it's competition did relatively well.

[onatuesday]

Originally Posted by ///MCFC

pls help me to understand how $44k and $60k are "roughly the same price". thx.

TBH I didn't know the CTS V sport started that high but would you consider a $64k M4 (if there is such a thing) and a $85k M4 not to be in the same price range? I just think it's impressive that a heavy 4 dr luxury sedan that's not particularly known for being laser focused on performance beats the much lighter m235i coupe. And yes I know the hp delta is about 100hp. Geez guess I can't say anything that doesn't portray every BMW in the most positive light with out someone getting worked up about it

[CirrusSR22]

The ATS-V should be interesting when it comes out in November. Probably 300-400 lbs. lighter than that CTS V-Sport with probably more power. "V" level suspension, brakes, cooling, etc.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by turbo8765

Other than the tires, I don't see why?

Well I confess I was only rephrasing what the chief engineer has been quoted saying in various magazines, such as:

http://m.motortrend.com/roadtests/co...28_first_ride/

Whether he's embellishing for effect or not I don't know - I haven't driven one.

Regardless of that, the point is that it's an impressive performer at its price. It's obviously street legal so depending on your taste you can drive it wherever you want as much as you want.

[JoeFromPA]

I thought the camaro z-28 was a stripped down track machine with no A/C, etc. from the factory and truly a track suspension? It's not just tires, is it?

Because that's ALOT of money for a camaro if it's "just tires"

[Black Gold]

Originally Posted by trinim3

TBH I didn't know the CTS V sport started that high but would you consider a $64k M4 (if there is such a thing) and a $85k M4 not to be in the same price range? ut it

No, I wouldn't

21k price differnce

[hova00]

glad to see my viper is fast.

[pgviper]

Originally Posted by MaynardZed

Meh, both nice cars, but haven't been too impressed with the C7's I've seen at the track so far IRL. Probably its because newer drivers that bought the C7 thinking it would be really fast just don't know how to drive it yet. The C6 Z06's are still way quicker, hell my E36 is quicker than the C7's I've seen so far.

As far as the Camaro Z28, they are $100K still because of rarity and markups, so we can stop saying how much of a bargain they for the time being. The regular SS Camaros are slow as hell on the track and the ZL1 is not much better. Remains to be seen if real guys at the club racing level will be able get a lot more out of the Z28. Sadly, the vast majority of the Z28's will be garage queens, because Chevy guys think they will be collector items.

I'd take my chances in the M4 against either of these cars with a proper track tire, alignment, and track brake pads.

Please give me whatever your smoking.

The 1le pulled a faster lap time than the M4. The ZL1 kicked complete ass in the lightning lap that it performed in and now the z/28 is right off the tail of the nismo GTR.

Your ignorance is amusing.

[tdizzle]

Originally Posted by turbo8765

Pilot Super Sports- The same tire that comes on the M4, in almost the exact same sizes.

The only difference is the C7 has the run flat version.

Got ya. I thought they were PSS but run flats. Lurking c7 forums I saw a few complain about them being run flats, much like the f30 forum owners have, myself included. Granted my PSS non run flats are superior to the summer run flats that came stock, I wonder if the run flat version of the PSS has a downside to the regular version. I'm guessing there is a moderate weight gain in the run flat version but maybe they're otherwise just as good.

Interesting host BMW doesn't put run flats on their m cars when they could do something similar to what they do with the c7 given there is no spare. Makes me think there is some advantage in performance even in fairly small.

[pgviper]

Originally Posted by JoeFromPA

I thought the camaro z-28 was a stripped down track machine with no A/C, etc. from the factory and truly a track suspension? It's not just tires, is it?

Because that's ALOT of money for a camaro if it's "just tires"

It's def NOT just tires.

Camaro5... forums... z/28 general discussion... your welcome.

[onatuesday]

Originally Posted by pgviper

Please give me whatever your smoking.

The 1le pulled a faster lap time than the M4. The ZL1 kicked complete ass in the lightning lap that it performed in and now the z/28 is right off the tail of the nismo GTR.

Your ignorance is amusing.

Yeah that guy is in serious denial lol. Either that or he's lapping with the novice HPDE class where admittedly yes bmws can keep up with vettes

[JoeFromPA]

A quick assessment of these results: Really fascinating as a car lover. There's no traditional rhyme or reason here in terms of dollars to performance nor car type. You can have a heavy "cheap" chevy blow away a lightweight M4. You can have a 4700 pound mercedes luxo-sedan blow away an m4.

But you can also have an M4 beat out a mid-engined Porsche track monster (cayman S).

The americans were excellent and apparently mercedes builds better track cars in their big-sedans than BMW does in their focused smaller ones, at least based on track times here.

Tires are a big wild card and you can't even compare the same models anymore because a Michelin PSS for one car is not the same as a michelin PSS for another.

....

So really, I don't even know how much weight to give track times anymore for any one particular vehicle. I mean, hell, the only "breakaway" vehicle here has over 800hp and costs $850k or so.

[CirrusSR22]

Originally Posted by JoeFromPA

I thought the camaro z-28 was a stripped down track machine with no A/C, etc. from the factory and truly a track suspension? It's not just tires, is it?

Because that's ALOT of money for a camaro if it's "just tires"

The engine is from the C6 Z06. 7.0 liter dry sump V8.
The brakes are carbon ceramics shared with the new C7 Z06.
Multimatic spool valve shocks
Bunch of extra cooling
Unique aero
Thinner rear glass, less sound insulation, simplified wiring harnesses.

A/C and a radio are optional, not excluded completely.