BMW M4 Car and Driver Lightning Lap times are out

[pgviper]

ATTENTION ALL "Z/28 IS JUST TIRES" HATERS

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...g_skidpad.html

Soak it in. I'm sure your recovery will be difficult but one day, you will be able to accept reality. Good luck!

As few of us have been saying, a car is the summation of its parts. Not just a set of tires, shocks, brakes etc... Its performance is the result of top of the line parts along with countless hours of fine tuneing and adjustments. All of which you get from the factory in the z/28. THAT is what makes it such a special car.

What's also impressive is the 1le. For those of you that don't know, 1le is a performance package you get for $3,500 added to the camaro ss. If you view the 1le lap time for the lightning lap, it's right around 3:00 which is EXTREMELY impressive considering you can get one for $35k.

[TSM330i]

Originally Posted by trinim3

I'd expect acceleration, grip, braking, cornering, and all of the above to be faster. So yes it was a surprise to me that acceleration was slower - though I'd assume that's because it's harder to launch. I know most of the delta is going to be in cornering. The point is the Z28 isn't just fast around a track cuz of the tires. It's just fast regardless.

I read the entire article. They said the stickier tires were much more difficult to lauch either car with. It was an all or nothing. Too few revs and the car would just bog. A little bit of wheel spin on launch is actually a good thing, just a little.

During the first magazine tests of the z/28, the journalists were talking with the engineers and they asked what the 0-60 and quarter mile times were. The engineers responded that they'd never launched the car because it was designed as a road race car, not a quarter mile machine LOL!

In the end, this test is showing that the tires are not the end-all-be-all that everyone is thinking. It'd be interesting to see exactly how the Z/28 would fare with the stock size tires (305/30-19) in a Michelin PSS. The 1LE tires are narrower in width at 285/35-20.

I also noticed quite a few complaining about the price of the Z/28. The Ferrari F12, which was only 0.1 seconds quicker than the Z/28, had $135,000 in OPTIONS!

[Jockey]

Originally Posted by pgviper

ATTENTION ALL "Z/28 IS JUST TIRES" HATERS

I'm fairly certain absolutely no one in this thread is saying that.

At all...

[pgviper]

Originally Posted by Jockey

I'm fairly certain absolutely no one in this thread is saying that.

At all...

More of a joke but theres always someone spewing out tire comparisons when it comes to the z/28.

Just providing the article since somebody had referenced it earlier in the thread.

[Black Gold]

Originally Posted by pgviper

More of a joke but theres always someone spewing out tire comparisons when it comes to the z/28.

Just providing the article since somebody had referenced it earlier in the thread.

I would point out that you completely missed the point of the article if you think it said that tires don't make a measureable difference

[pgviper]

Originally Posted by KennyPowers

I would point out that you completely missed the point of the article if you think it said that tires don't make a measureable difference

Of course it makes a measureable difference, hence the measured metrics. But at the same time, it goes to show that the z/28 is MORE than just a set of tires and brakes.

[Jockey]

Originally Posted by pgviper

But at the same time, it goes to show that the z/28 is MORE than just a set of tires and brakes.

Super, and no one is saying that. So I don't know why you are giving a counterargument to an argument no one made.

[pgviper]

Originally Posted by Jockey

Super, and no one is saying that. So I don't know why you are giving a counterargument to an argument no one made.

I don't think C&D would have made an article about the z/28 tires and how much of a difference they really make if nobody was arguing otherwise. Again, my post was not geared towards those in this thread, it was a blanket statement that I thought would be good information for people in this thread considering someone had already mentioned the article but I didn't see a link.

Are you offended or something... I'm pretty sure none of what I said had anything to do with you imparticular.

[pkimM3r]

Originally Posted by FogCityM3

Don't disagree, the Mercedes does handle pretty well but on longer tracks with broad sweeping turns, a higher power car will make up more of the time advantage. On shorter tracks, the Merc doesn't handle as well, but it is still very very good and will hold its own on any track in amateur hands, where any differences will be negligible. Auto-x is probably a different story, where weight is a big penalty and power alone isn't going to get you faster.

that's what I was going to say...hence the M5 and M6 have decent times becuase they are monsters on the straights.

lap times don't really say anything to handling much.

[Jockey]

Originally Posted by pgviper

I don't think C&D would have made an article about the z/28 tires and how much of a difference they really make if nobody was arguing otherwise. Again, my post was not geared towards those in this thread, it was a blanket statement that I thought would be good information for people in this thread considering someone had already mentioned the article but I didn't see a link.

Are you offended or something... I'm pretty sure none of what I said had anything to do with you imparticular.

Again, no one was arguing that in this thread, like you admit. You didn't offend me but your post was all chest beating like you had something to prove to people in this thread.

I also don't think C&D wrote that article as a counterargument more like another piece of the puzzle of what makes the Z28 so great.

People have been debating in this thread about tires not about that the greatness of the Z28 is all rubber.

[onatuesday]

Originally Posted by JoeFromPA

I thought the camaro z-28 was a stripped down track machine with no A/C, etc. from the factory and truly a track suspension? It's not just tires, is it?

Because that's ALOT of money for a camaro if it's "just tires"

Originally Posted by Jockey

Again, no one was arguing that in this thread, like you admit. You didn't offend me but your post was all chest beating like you had something to prove to people in this thread.

I also don't think C&D wrote that article as a counterargument more like another piece of the puzzle of what makes the Z28 so great.

People have been debating in this thread about tires not about that the greatness of the Z28 is all rubber.

Actually @Jockey in the beginning of this thread there was quite a lot of discussion (as evidenced in the quote above) that the the Z28 was only achieving the results because of it's R-Compound tires...so I'm not sure what all this flaming of pgviper is for?

[Jockey]

Originally Posted by trinim3

Actually @Jockey in the beginning of this thread there was quite a lot of discussion (as evidenced in the quote above) that the the Z28 was only achieving the results because of it's R-Compound tires...so I'm not sure what all this flaming of pgviper is for?

You're using that quote to justify your response?

Looks like you were the first one to start talking about "just tires" back in post #10

Originally Posted by trinim3

The most significant takeaway from these times should be that the tire compound makes all the difference.

[onatuesday]

Originally Posted by Jockey

You're using that quote to justify your response?

And you're trying to justify what exactly? That you like to make arguments for no reason and that contribute nothing to the discussion? PGVIPER wasn't even speaking to you but you chose to jump in and give him a hard time because you disagree with the way he phrased a post? I'm sure you can find more important things to do with your time

[Jockey]

Originally Posted by trinim3

And you're trying to justify what exactly? That you like to make arguments for no reason and that contribute nothing to the discussion? PGVIPER wasn't even speaking to you but you chose to jump in and give him a hard time because you disagree with the way he phrased a post? I'm sure you can find more important things to do with your time

Misrepresentation of the discussion?

And I do have better things to do now, debate with you.

But yes, I do have a problem when someone misrepresents the debate that is occurring in this thread. YOU'RE the one who started the tire compound debate.

[onatuesday]

Originally Posted by Jockey

Misrepresentation of the discussion?

And I do have better things to do now, debate with you.

But yes, I do have a problem when someone misrepresents the debate that is occurring in this thread. YOU'RE the one who started the tire compound debate.

Yes and it's a debate. That is all. You're interpretation of the debate is that nobody was arguing that the Z28 is all tires. Personally I felt that the Z28 achieved most of what it did because of the tires, so it was indeed a surprise to me that it wasn't mostly tires though. Or maybe it still is, the Motortrend article isn't exactly comprehensive. Anyways, the point is people can interpret things differently especially when things are written via a messaging board. We shouldn't get all worked about it (either PGVIper or you).

[Jockey]

I'm not worked up about it sport. It seems like you are though.

[FTS]

Originally Posted by DocWeatherington

This thread is going to end bad.

[pgviper]

Originally Posted by Jockey

Again, no one was arguing that in this thread, like you admit. You didn't offend me but your post was all chest beating like you had something to prove to people in this thread.

I also don't think C&D wrote that article as a counterargument more like another piece of the puzzle of what makes the Z28 so great.

People have been debating in this thread about tires not about that the greatness of the Z28 is all rubber.

I didn't realize so many conclusions can be drawn from a forum post. And yes, the main criticism of the z/28 is that it's just a set of stellar tires on a car with rental car interior and a v8. This is how it is viewed on mustang, viper, rennlist, bimmerpost etc... the list goes on of the forums where the criticism comes from. So being that this is a forum and this thread has to do with the z/28 in some manner, I added the link with a sense of humor. Again, sorry if the chest beating was too much for you. Maybe some people are just a bit sensitive...

On the other hand, I think the M4 did fantastic for what it is. As related to the tire discussion about the M4. I had the pleasure of talking with someone who has an M4 at a car meet on LI this past weekend. I took a close look at the tires on the M4 and you can tell that there is a difference in sidewall stiffness between the front and back. Maybe it is something to note if people go with aftermarket wheels.

[pgviper]

Originally Posted by trinim3

Yes and it's a debate. That is all. You're interpretation of the debate is that nobody was arguing that the Z28 is all tires. Personally I felt that the Z28 achieved most of what it did because of the tires, so it was indeed a surprise to me that it wasn't mostly tires though. Or maybe it still is, the Motortrend article isn't exactly comprehensive. Anyways, the point is people can interpret things differently especially when things are written via a messaging board. We shouldn't get all worked about it (either PGVIper or you).

It really amazes me how worked up people get over car conversations. I really couldn't care less, it gives me humor during my work day haha.

But back on point, I interpreted the article as saying that the tires do make a difference and so they should. That's what they are there for! Is it a significant difference such as closing in the 10 second gap on a 3 minute lap between the M4 and z/28, absolutely not but it is enough when comparing anything less than a second gap. What I really am surprised about is the Camaro 1le. Matches the m4 lap time with less power, more weight, steel brakes and the good ole eagle F1 street tires. Also, that time was run on the old track. As some are saying, the new track can add possibly 1 second or so, that could put it in the sub 3 minute range and besting the m4. Which at half the price and same category of car (daily driven sport coupe) I find to be VERY impressive.

[DocWeatherington]

Originally Posted by FTS

[Shaung]

Pretty amazing how far the GM guys went..and I'm all M3-4-LIFE!