[6speed_M2]

AFE open lid intake >>>. Only $100-150 more than the burger & it's larger in both the pipe & the filter, comes with a box that keeps heat away from the filter but is still open up top to let some sound come out.

In terms of sounds, it's not even close. AFE sounds night and day better and makes a variety of noises that the burger wouldn't. I've had both & I would pay double for the AFE now over the burger.

[F87source]

I would only get the cts intake if I were to get an intake at all, because that is the only one guaranteed not to have maf sensor issues.

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by 6speed_M2

AFE open lid intake >>>. Only $100-150 more than the burger & it's larger in both the pipe & the filter, comes with a box that keeps heat away from the filter but is still open up top to let some sound come out.

In terms of sounds, it's not even close. AFE sounds night and day better and makes a variety of noises that the burger wouldn't. I've had both & I would pay double for the AFE now over the burger.

Don't buy the hype about the enclosure. It barely helps and becomes an impediment at higher engine speeds.

[6speed_M2]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

Don't buy the hype about the enclosure. It barely helps and becomes an impediment at higher engine speeds.

I guess that could be true, I have no idea really. We've done numerous amounts of dyno testing with my car (5th gear pulls up at 130-145mph) and we didn't seem to have any problems. Whether or not it would be better otherwise, again, I have no clue. All of my dyno runs were with this intake.

Also, if this was the case, wouldn't the stock air box be a problem then? It would seem to me to be even worse because it's completely closed off.

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by 6speed_M2

I guess that could be true, I have no idea really. We've done numerous amounts of dyno testing with my car (5th gear pulls up at 130-145mph) and we didn't seem to have any problems. Whether or not it would be better otherwise, again, I have no clue. All of my dyno runs were with this intake.

Also, if this was the case, wouldn't the stock air box be a problem then? It would seem to me to be even worse because it's completely closed off.

It's just not better* These intakes improve power by having more filter surface area, but often times a closed box will still have the intake pulling air through a smaller diameter opening. It's just counter productive.

[Zeese]

Originally Posted by F87source

I would only get the cts intake if I were to get an intake at all, because that is the only one guaranteed not to have maf sensor issues.

Did CTS really engineer their MAF fitting with more care and purpose than other companies? I am sure there are some products that were slammed together. Whirls and vortices are not simple things to model.

FWIW, I inherited the Eventuri intake. No codes thrown on the stock tune, using the Dinan Stage 4 piggyback tune (inherited), or the Carbahn Stage 2 tune. Big turbo and MPE installed (inherited). I added the air scoop and changed to the V2 cone filter (because why not throw good money after bad ;-) ). No codes. Spirited driving.

Perhaps "guaranteed" is a bit too strong a description. Least likely? I do not know. In theory, a poorly designed intake per the MAF sensor could see either an increase or decrease in performance. In other words, the wrong signal is an input to a model that makes adjustments to fueling, etc.

To the point, I figured the Eventuri intake was working as expected before adding the air scoop. Ideally, there is more cold air intake (!) with the source being outside the engine bay. Looks good. Sound sort of amusing (to me). I would guess the complete new current kit offers measurable gains sans codes.

So ... Eventuri has been reliable for me. CTS is apparently reliable. Some other options are probably legit too. Nobody should be surprised if there are some intakes that are slammed together and sold which do not properly funnel the intake past the MAF sensor.

[F87source]

Originally Posted by Zeese

Did CTS really engineer their MAF fitting with more care and purpose than other companies? I am sure there are some products that were slammed together. Whirls and vortices are not simple things to model.

FWIW, I inherited the Eventuri intake. No codes thrown on the stock tune, using the Dinan Stage 4 piggyback tune (inherited), or the Carbahn Stage 2 tune. Big turbo and MPE installed (inherited). I added the air scoop and changed to the V2 cone filter (because why not throw good money after bad ;-) ). No codes. Spirited driving.

Perhaps "guaranteed" is a bit too strong a description. Least likely? I do not know. In theory, a poorly designed intake per the MAF sensor could see either an increase or decrease in performance. In other words, the wrong signal is an input to a model that makes adjustments to fueling, etc.

To the point, I figured the Eventuri intake was working as expected before adding the air scoop. Ideally, there is more cold air intake (!) with the source being outside the engine bay. Looks good. Sound sort of amusing (to me). I would guess the complete new current kit offers measurable gains sans codes.

So ... Eventuri has been reliable for me. CTS is apparently reliable. Some other options are probably legit too. Nobody should be surprised if there are some intakes that are slammed together and sold which do not properly funnel the intake past the MAF sensor.

Well that's how it's advertised, the maf housing being designed a certain way.


Guaranteed, youre right might be a bit strong (awe used to actually guarantee no CEL or your money back iirc, I had their carbon intake on my m235i) but least likely would be accurate, since there hasn't been a single report with this intake causing issues.


Also once you go WOT the car switches to speed density so it doesn't care about the maf sensors readings. IIRC the maf sensor is for idle and part throttle.


Oneore thing, some cars are more sensitive to intake than others, especially when it gets cold outside and air density increases. I've seen some cars fail to start due to a large rpm stumble and stall.

[AmuroRay]

Just updating this - I previously had the Stock M2 lower box with the Evolve scoop and AFE filter. All was well until I cleaned my filter and reinstalled it. The car was never the same since: Cold starts were rougher, and made the car undrivable for almost a minute after starting, if you did it would buck and jerk violently.

I thought this was intake related, so I tried cleaning the MAF with little success. XutvJet actually stated this happened to him, so maybe residual water damaged the MAF or there is a leak?

I since changed to the CTS intake (more on that in a second) to see if that helped the MAF readings. Same issue with the CTS intake - it was jerky on start up and still cut out on WOT multiple gear runs.

I opened up my code reader (MHD) and reset the adaptations for the MAF, fuel trims and idle, and wouldn't you know it, it actually worked. The car started up naturally, and settled to a nice idle and I was able to pull it out of the garage with no strange behavior.

Problem: Rough cold start/Jerky Cold start throttle
Solution: Cleaned MAF and reset MAF, idle and fuel trim adaptations.

But on to the CTS intake - Perfect startup, sharper throttle response, more noise and yes, more power. Noticeable bump in torque, more power throughout the rev range.

[F87source]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

Just updating this - I previously had the Stock M2 lower box with the Evolve scoop and AFE filter. All was well until I cleaned my filter and reinstalled it. The car was never the same since: Cold starts were rougher, and made the car undrivable for almost a minute after starting, if you did it would buck and jerk violently.

I thought this was intake related, so I tried cleaning the MAF with little success. XutvJet actually stated this happened to him, so maybe residual water damaged the MAF or there is a leak?

I since changed to the CTS intake (more on that in a second) to see if that helped the MAF readings. Same issue with the CTS intake - it was jerky on start up and still cut out on WOT multiple gear runs.

I opened up my code reader (MHD) and reset the adaptations for the MAF, fuel trims and idle, and wouldn't you know it, it actually worked. The car started up naturally, and settled to a nice idle and I was able to pull it out of the garage with no strange behavior.

Problem: Rough cold start/Jerky Cold start throttle
Solution: Cleaned MAF and reset MAF, idle and fuel trim adaptations.

But on to the CTS intake - Perfect startup, sharper throttle response, more noise and yes, more power. Noticeable bump in torque, more power throughout the rev range.

The sensation of power and response gain is likely due to the adaptation reset, once the car adapts it will subside. This is exactly what m2 owners were reporting when they got a new istep update which also reset adaptations, and there's a whole thread on it too. I too experienced the same sensation of more power with an istep update, and afterwards it subsided as the car adapted.

I suspect the reason is the car is pushing harder to find and learn the limits of timing advance with the fuel in use.

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by F87source

The sensation of power and response gain is likely due to the adaptation reset, once the car adapts it will subside. This is exactly what m2 owners were reporting when they got a new istep update which also reset adaptations, and there's a whole thread on it too. I too experienced the same sensation of more power with an istep update, and afterwards it subsided as the car adapted.

I suspect the reason is the car is pushing harder to find and learn the limits of timing advance with the fuel in use.

Actually, the increase in throttle response and torque were noticed before resetting the adaptations. I know everyone wants to believe that every mod outside a downpipe and tune is a zero sum game, but in this case it a noticeable increase in torque. That's not to say I don't agree with you in regards to adaptations, but it's been more than a week and it's still sharp.

[F87source]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

Actually, the increase in throttle response and torque were noticed before resetting the adaptations. I know everyone wants to believe that every mod outside a downpipe and tune is a zero sum game, but in this case it a noticeable increase in torque. That's not to say I don't agree with you in regards to adaptations, but it's been more than a week and it's still sharp.

Well that's a good thing.

I'm still in the camp of stock intake, as it was well thought out by BMW and has a built in venturi generating taper. I still really doubt there is a big gain with an intake, hence why most tuners still run stock intakes on these cars.

I guess I'll still be skeptical until I see before and after results with the stock intake being of an mppk spec/m2 lower housing and non charcoal filter.

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by F87source

Well that's a good thing.

I'm still in the camp of stock intake, as it was well thought out by BMW and has a built in venturi generating taper. I still really doubt there is a big gain with an intake, hence why most tuners still run stock intakes on these cars.

I guess I'll still be skeptical until I see before and after results with the stock intake being of an mppk spec/m2 lower housing and non charcoal filter.

I've had stock M235i, M2 lower with AFE, Dinan with the M2 lower, and finally the CTS. The CTS is better than the others, with the M2 lower/AFE being a very close second.

The CTS offers more torque, and it's immediately noticeable on tip in throttle. I have a manual so throttle modulations are a lot easier with more toque. Earth shattering? No - but it's noticeable. I Think I've done everything possible to open up the intake and lower the WDGC. Hopefully it gives me some extra headroom.

[mike@x-ph.com]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

Actually, the increase in throttle response and torque were noticed before resetting the adaptations. I know everyone wants to believe that every mod outside a downpipe and tune is a zero sum game, but in this case it a noticeable increase in torque. That's not to say I don't agree with you in regards to adaptations, but it's been more than a week and it's still sharp.

The intake is a weird one. Most don't want to believe it adds power.

here is a dyno from BMS with before and after, im sure the CTS intake nets similar gains

[F87source]

Originally Posted by mike@x-ph.com

The intake is a weird one. Most don't want to believe it adds power.

here is a dyno from BMS with before and after, im sure the CTS intake nets similar gains

Most intakes are dynoed with the standard F30 intake which has no extra cut out on the intake bottom, and a thick charcoal filter that restricts flow.

Intake manufacturers generally do this to increase power gains. From what I have seen in the past on a different forum, users have run with no air box and just a turbo inlet and have seen no gains, and this was with a JB4 so it shouldn't be fully load tuning based anymore. I have also seen an m2 with the factory air box and no filter showing no gains. So there's that too.

I am keen to see a proper MPPK air box and non charcoal oem filter vs. an aftermarket intake - same car, same tune, same day. That'll make me believe that there is a gain.

[mike@x-ph.com]

Originally Posted by F87source

Most intakes are dynoed with the standard F30 intake which has no extra cut out on the intake bottom, and a thick charcoal filter that restricts flow.

Intake manufacturers generally do this to increase power gains. From what I have seen in the past on a different forum, users have run with no air box and just a turbo inlet and have seen no gains, and this was with a JB4 so it shouldn't be fully load tuning based anymore. I have also seen an m2 with the factory air box and no filter showing no gains. So there's that too.

I am keen to see a proper MPPK air box and non charcoal oem filter vs. an aftermarket intake - same car, same tune, same day. That'll make me believe that there is a gain.

More data is always good, I won't disagree with that.

[AmuroRay]

Of course an open intake is going to make power over stock, it's got more surface area for the filter and because it's not in a box, and it should have less pressure drop over the surface. Versus the stock F22/F30 airbox, the M2 box is actually measurably less restrictive because of it's additional opening. Objectively, it was a few % difference in WGDC, subjectively, the car drove better.

These effects are more noticeable if you have an aftermarket inlet (which in itself added a bit more power at top end, and offered a lower WGDC)

I switched back from the M2/AFE to the stock F22/AFE. On the stock intake box with drop in filter, the was more lag which required me to be in SPORT/+ to get the same throttle response. I also noticed less power, which required more throttle input to modulate the clutch from take off and just an overall weaker feeling throughout the rev range.

Again, these effects are more noticeable if you have an aftermarket inlet (which in itself added a bit more power at top end, and offered a lower WGDC) thejeremyman9

Intakes have made power on BMWs for years, I'm not sure why this is a "PROVE IT" situation. Here is Bimmerworld's independent dyno of the Injen open intake on the M2:

[F87source]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

Of course an open intake is going to make power over stock, it's got more surface area for the filter and because it's not in a box, and it should have less pressure drop over the surface. Versus the stock F22/F30 airbox, the M2 box is actually measurably less restrictive because of it's additional opening. Objectively, it was a few % difference in WGDC, subjectively, the car drove better.

These effects are more noticeable if you have an aftermarket inlet (which in itself added a bit more power at top end, and offered a lower WGDC)

I switched back from the M2/AFE to the stock F22/AFE. On the stock intake box with drop in filter, the was more lag which required me to be in SPORT/+ to get the same throttle response. I also noticed less power, which required more throttle input to modulate the clutch from take off and just an overall weaker feeling throughout the rev range.

Again, these effects are more noticeable if you have an aftermarket inlet (which in itself added a bit more power at top end, and offered a lower WGDC) thejeremyman9

Intakes have made power on BMWs for years, I'm not sure why this is a "PROVE IT" situation. Here is Bimmerworld's independent dyno of the Injen open intake on the M2:

That dyno result is very interesting, it does show a bump in power which is the first dyno result I have seen on an mppk style lower intake housing. However sometimes that power gain can be caused by running with the hood open on a dyno allowing the intake to suck in a large amount of cold air vs. when the hood is closed. That's why I would prefer to see closed hood dyno pulls, and more than one replicate to take the possibility of heat soak ruining one dyno run out of the equation.


Next you can't generalize all intakes are proven to make power on bmws. You need to consider filter size because not all coned filters have the indent at the top which reduces filter surface area, next some closed box intakes have a smaller inlet size than even the mppk bottom housing.


But it is good to see conclusive proof...

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by F87source

That dyno result is very interesting, it does show a bump in power which is the first dyno result I have seen on an mppk style lower intake housing. However sometimes that power gain can be caused by running with the hood open on a dyno allowing the intake to suck in a large amount of cold air vs. when the hood is closed. That's why I would prefer to see closed hood dyno pulls, and more than one replicate to take the possibility of heat soak ruining one dyno run out of the equation.


Next you can't generalize all intakes are proven to make power on bmws. You need to consider filter size because not all coned filters have the indent at the top which reduces filter surface area, next some closed box intakes have a smaller inlet size than even the mppk bottom housing.


But it is good to see conclusive proof...

I've been on the dyno so many times, and I have NEVER dynoed my car with the hood closed. There is zero times you'll be at 100% load and no moving air. Having the hood open (with fans) is the closet to simulating road conditions.

Like I said before, the stock airbox and other closed box units are only pulling the air through the front inlet, which just seems counter productive. But we've been seeing these intakes (tube + filter) make power on cars for years - the N54 was all about DCI, the BMS made power on the early N55s and even F series, this isn't a surprising result.

[Wolfman’s Brother]

I really enjoy seeing you two post. Always fun to read.

Y’all both know you can see 5whp variations just dynoing a car repeatedly. Same day, same conditions, etc.

I’m not saying what you’re describing as your experience is made up, or placebo…

But I am still ambivalent on the value of changing the intake on these cars. I notice a minor difference in power between a 80 degree day and a 55 degree day. If I want a real power increase, I’m spending the money on a HPFP, a turbo upgrade, or a tank of race gas.

I have an Eventuri engine cover though, so clearly my decision making is questionable

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by Wolfman’s Brother

I really enjoy seeing you two post. Always fun to read.

Y’all both know you can see 5whp variations just dynoing a car repeatedly. Same day, same conditions, etc.

I’m not saying what you’re describing as your experience is made up, or placebo…

But I am still ambivalent on the value of changing the intake on these cars. I notice a minor difference in power between a 80 degree day and a 55 degree day. If I want a real power increase, I’m spending the money on a HPFP, a turbo upgrade, or a tank of race gas.

I have an Eventuri engine cover though, so clearly my decision making is questionable

I like F87source, good resource for a lot of information.

If you wanted an extra bump in torque, and more sound - I would do it. Mostly manual guys, as some people say it can sound obnoxious with an automatic. I also have an upgraded diverter valve and inlet, which I think are absolute musts regardless of mods, but also help the intake breath more effectively.

Like you said, it's just about 5whp at peak (which feels like it carries to redline) is a wash, but the torque is noticeable.

[F87source]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

I've been on the dyno so many times, and I have NEVER dynoed my car with the hood closed. There is zero times you'll be at 100% load and no moving air. Having the hood open (with fans) is the closet to simulating road conditions.

Like I said before, the stock airbox and other closed box units are only pulling the air through the front inlet, which just seems counter productive. But we've been seeing these intakes (tube + filter) make power on cars for years - the N54 was all about DCI, the BMS made power on the early N55s and even F series, this isn't a surprising result.

No, dynoing it with the hood closed and having fans situated to move air through the front bumper, no one dynos without fans... I've dynoed alot of cars with the hood shut, the only time the hood stays open is for cars with top mount intercoolers where we use a "sock" to blow air through it. Even when we have to probe an ignition coil for rpm the wire is run out of the hood cowl. This way it mimics road conditions as much as possible.

Despite having air flowing through your still going to pull some of the hotter air from under the hood and past the radiator, it's not like pulling cool air from an ambient temperature room.


I will take a look on n54tech to see if the dyno plot of just the turbo inlet and no air box is still there. That was the one that initiated the point that after market intakes don't produce any more power. It's also why every intake manufacturer compares to the stock f30 intake, to make the gains larger than they are.

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by F87source

No, dynoing it with the hood closed and having fans situated to move air through the front bumper, no one dynos without fans... I've dynoed alot of cars with the hood shut, the only time the hood stays open is for cars with top mount intercoolers where we use a "sock" to blow air through it. Even when we have to probe an ignition coil for rpm the wire is run out of the hood cowl. This way it mimics road conditions as much as possible.

Despite having air flowing through your still going to pull some of the hotter air from under the hood and past the radiator, it's not like pulling cool air from an ambient temperature room.


I will take a look on n54tech to see if the dyno plot of just the turbo inlet and no air box is still there. That was the one that initiated the point that after market intakes don't produce any more power. It's also why every intake manufacturer compares to the stock f30 intake, to make the gains larger than they are.

I've never run with the hood down, nor have I ever seen it - I used to spend time at a local shop (ProvenPower) with a dynojet. I'm going to see if I can log a run or two tonight, my cable/Logger has been acting up. It's just my life