[mmillsnyny]

Hi All,

Just found out that our 2016 BMW X1 w/54k miles needs a new engine. The death was sudden and happened ON THE DAY OUR WARRANTY EXPIRED!

Im obviously upset but I've read 1000:1 positive posts about our car and genuinely seeking rational guidance/opinions on my best tact to work with BMW/Dealer (if any)


Backstory
Vehicle: 2016 X1 XDRIVE28I, Purchased Jan 2019 @ 36k miles for $27K from a dealer in AZ
Service/Warranty: Perfect service record, no accidents, extended warranty expired 12/10/21 (last Friday).

Present
Vehicle: 54k miles (18k "family driving miles" from Feb '20-Dec '21)
Service/Warranty: Perfect dealer service record; 2 brand new tires & replaced front brakes 10/13/22

THE FAST DEATH
- October 13, 2021: Full service at dealer (no issues, opted to buy 2 new tires, replace front brake pads early)

- Friday (12/10, warranty expiration date): Static amber service light. Dealer service tech suggests (by phone) that I check if the gas cap is secure and if light persists after "cycling through a few times over the weekend", I should bring car in on Monday.

- Saturday (12/11) While driving over the GWB "Drivetrain Malfunction" warning light appears. Noticeable loss of power in low gears. Keeping her in higher gears thru manual, I drive 30min home.

- Mon (12/13) I drive the 20 minutes to dealer for service. Idling, sounds like one muffler was not functioning. Drove in manual to stay in high gears.

- Tue (12/14) Dealer calls and says multiple cylinders not functioning but there are too many error codes to diagnose; quotes $1,600 labor to find root of issue. I sign off

- Fri (12/17) Dealer does a compression check and first cylinder has very low pressure (maybe 2nd too?) and found a piston ring crack.

Apparently, we need a new motor. Cost is $15k + $5k for labor. Obviously, that's a non-starter (no pun intended) and they are calling BMW N America to request a price break on engine.

FYI I asked if the warranty would be honored b/c I called on expiration date and learned that BMW warranties expire at 12:01am on day-of, so my call was actually after the warranty "technically" expired.

This is our first BMW. The X1 is a decent vehicle (7 out of 10) but the service and dealer communication to this point has been a 10 out of 10.

This is our first BMW and would be grateful for any rational, experienced BMW owner guidance.

Thanks in advance.

[Skyline2.0]

Very sorry about your situation. Some options I would consider at this point:

1. Get more details. The "cracked piston ring" explanation alone isn't enough for informed decisionmaking and unlikely the sole reason to write off the entire engine. If I paid $1.6k for only diagnostics, I expect a thorough explanation with proof. I think it's within reason to at least ask for photos (e.g., borescope cam) and specifics about what exactly went wrong and which parts are damaged.

Replacing an entire engine is on the extreme end. The BMW dealer may be unnecessarily pushing this option cause they don't want to, or cant due to BMW Corporate restrictions, tear down the engine to replace only the affected part(s).

2. Get 2nd opinion. Flatbed tow your car to a well reviewed/trusted independent BMW specialist shop. If major/large engine components are not damaged, there could be a way to repair the engine besides throwing in a new one.

3. Used motor installed by independent shop. If you're determined to keep the car and the engine does need to be replaced, get quotes from reputable non-dealer shops. There's a good chance it will be cheaper than the dealer.

4. Sell as is. Consider getting rid of the car in "as is" condition. The car market is still very hot that favors sellers right now. I think car prices will normalize once supply chain restrictions and semiconductor chip issues are resolved. These next few months may be the best time to sell before the market cools down.

[mmillsnyny]

Appreciate the thoughtful reply.

A couple comments and follow up ?'s:

More Details
I asked our Service Tech to provide clarification beyond "piston ring crack" and sensed his reluctance. He's a young, earnest kid who volunteered that mgmt is involved and BMW NA has been contacted.
It didn't feel right to pressure him. Instead, I scheduled an in-person mtg for after they learned what/if BMW NA offers.

This is a well run dealership in an affluent area and I'm hopeful (but not optimistic) their advocacy will resonate.

Thank you for the borescope cam photo recommendation.

Is there anything else I should expect/demand the dealer provide following a $1,600 diagnostic? For example, explanation of failure in writing, diagnostic reports, etc? I am assuming that all damaged parts will be intact and present.

2nd Opinion
I'm not determined to keep the car. I would like to preserve the $20k. Candidly, we need a working vehicle stat.

The X1 was a gift from my father in-law, a retired Canadian Trooper. He is devastated (and p1ssed off). To add insult to injury, his "gift" was our ride to Canada for the holidays.

If an independent BMW specialist were to identify a clear point of failure, or determine the engine is salvageable, could their findings assist in discussions with BMW? Assuming this would require legal intervention or am I missing other points of entry?

Appreciate the help and hoping this all moot and we get a fast and fair resolution.

[Skyline2.0]

Is your car at the Park Ave BMW in Hackensack? I've been to their service center once and it wasn't a terrible experience.

I would ask for photos, findings in writing, etc., but the dealer will likely be reluctant to put anything in writing unless you end up paying for the repair. It does them no good in terms of business and could become a liability if their findings end up being wrong. I personally would press the issue regardless given the diagnostic fee.

If you need a vehicle right away, I wouldn't wait to get this all sorted. Start looking for a new/used car instead. I agree - $20k is a lot to invest into a car with no deep sentimental value.

Trying to negotiate with the dealer on the repair method/cost using a 2nd outside opinion could get tricky. But, it may give you more insight into the specifics of the problem. You could consider bringing this topic up with the service manager and get a feel for how they'll respond.

I'm not seeing the benefit of taking legal action at this point...unless you're trying to fight the warranty expiration issue, suspect dealer negligence from a prior service, or possible manufacturing defect.

It seems like you're in a wait and see phase right now. The dealer may get corporate to enough of the cost via goodwill to make the repair worthwhile. You should also strongly look into shopping for another vehicle now. Given the current car market, it may take longer than expected to get the right one at the right price.

[mmillsnyny]

The car is in Wayne. In my experience, a well run operation.

They set the bar so high that I knew it was worst-case-scenario news based solely on their slower-than-usual response time.

Sell as-is
Carvana and CarFax are selling lesser 2016 X1's at $26k-$28k. Edmunds has it at $25k. Assume those cars have working engines. You weren't kidding about a hot used car market.

What are your thoughts - and watch outs - on selling as-is to dealer and/or rolling $s into a new vehicle 3-year lease?

Thank you for your grounded advice and generosity. If you want to tap out, no worries. Appreciate your help.

[Skyline2.0]

The dealer will undoubtedly leverage the engine issue to their advantage. I don't think you have much bargaining power, whether lease or outright sale, on the amount you'll get for the car, but getting rid of it now could net more than you would receive a few months down the line (or not...unfortunately I can't predict the future). Checking current market value for similar X1s, in working condition, can give a good ballpark, but the engine replacement issue is such a significant unknown to the actual value of your car that I wouldn't factor in much of this research in the decisionmaking process.

If you're in desperate need of a working vehicle, have no personal attachment to this X1, don't have a strong enough desire to invest the money for a proper fix and prefer to go through the dealer, working out a trade-in deal in "as is" condition makes sense.

[mmillsnyny]

Quick update on the status of case. Skyline2.0 - thanks again for your sage advice.

- Dealer is waiving the $1,600 diagnostic fee that confirmed engine failure
- Dealer secured a brand new motor from BMW for $0
- We are on the hook for $5,500 in labor fees

I'm a glass half-empty guy so pardon the gruesome analogy but I feel like a patient who anticipated losing both legs and just found out Im only losing a foot.

Rationally, a car with 55,000 miles and a brand new engine w/zero miles + BMW Dealership papers, etc., should be worth more.

Realistically, suspect our pool of buyers will likely decrease to those "in the know" which is not necessarily a bad thing, just adds a layer of complexity to a sale.

[spatel88]

Since you live in NJ assuming the car is registered in NJ. Wouldnt this be covered by SULEV Warranty

[pfdaxe]

Similar experience with my IS350 F-Sport I use to own. Car was running great, but I took it into the dealer for a valve recall. Halfway home, the engine went into limp mode. Dealer towed car back and determined there was an issue with the block and needed a new one. Cost was $8k, but since there was nothing wrong with block when I dropped it off, they didn't charge me. The IS had just over 50k miles on it. I asked several people at the dealership what happened and nobody would answer me. I firmly believe the tech working on it f'ed up something.

[///Makis]

Originally Posted by spatel88

Since you live in NJ assuming the car is registered in NJ. Wouldnt this be covered by SULEV Warranty

He said it came from Arizona so it might not be a sulev.

But if it is, You might be right, there could be some extended coverage. I know they have replaced sulev fuel pumps which are sealed in the gas tanks and not serviceable (which makes them incredibly expensive) under the sulev emissions warranty.

[Xorbitman]

Usually vehicle manufacturers will honor a warranty even if it expired in a similar situation to yours as a gesture of goodwill. Also obviously your engine failure isn't something that happened right away. Something this serious to an engine was most likely a hidden or latent defect that eventually and gradually became catastrophic in nature and started to occur way before the warranty expiration date. Therefore BMW should repair your engine free of charge. Most engine and power train warranties are longer than basic warranties too. If your vehicle's maintenance records were in line with the BMW's suggested service interval and there's no reason to believe otherwise, then you did everything BMW recommended that you did and of course you father in law previously too. I would insist on BMW completing the repairs free of charge. If they refuse, which I highly doubt that they would, I would seek an attorney that is specialized in these matters and tell BMW that you will seek help from social media which I'm sure they will try to avoid at all costs. Some attorneys specialized in this will do this for free or a reduced fee based on issues and the manufacturer's reluctance to go to litigation and may decide to settle quickly. (Bad press). Good luck and stick to the plan.

[Tally100]

Any update on what happened please

[mmillsnyny]

Sorry about the delayed update.

It's been 7 weeks. The dealer called this past week to inform us our vehicle is ready and that we need new front brakes.

I knew they had just replaced our front brakes in October and in reviewing our paperwork during the engine fiasco, I saw our invoice read "rear brake replacement". I had assumed this was a paperwork mix-up and had called the tech to clarify but he no longer works there.

I asked the new tech to share their Oct brake inspection report and was pleased that they were honest (rear .7, fronts .3) and admitted they replaced the wrong brakes and would cover our front brake replacement.

While my father in law purchased the car in Az, the first owner was in Cali and believe it's definitely and SLUV.

I am going to bring this to this to the dealer's attention and request the diagnostics report.

Ill report back what happened.

[mmillsnyny]

Update and Some Drama

Picked up the car yesterday. Dealer had no record the Tech waived the $1,650 diagnostics fee. The Tech no longer works there so while we “work out” the diagnostic fee confusion, I pressed the Service Mamager to explain our engine failure. He could/would not and when I asked to see the diagnostics, he referred me to a paragraph on the invoice referencing leak down low psi in cylinders 1& 2, traces of metal in oil, and a bunch of tests that were negative. etc.

Quslestion: Is this a proper diagnostics report or are they holding anything back?

I ask b/c i enquired if our vehicle fell under SULEV warranty and the Service Manager gave me an incredulous look and said “you want more after we got you a free engine” (one day out of warranty) and “no, your vehicle is NOT an SULEV.”

Maybe Im being paranoid that they’re hiding something but when I checked under our hood today, it certainly appears that vehicle is an SULEV.

Thoughts?

Will update more tomorrow.

[sart45]

interesting.... my 2016 X1 that I bought new and also purchased an extended warranty on expired JUNE 30, 2022. I had a Drivetrain Malfunction light come on August 5,2022. The car has 69,500 miles. I was able to drive it to the dealer. It's been there for a week.
Today I was told a bolt on/in the Cam Shaft broke... I have 3 choices.. tear down & rebuild engine Buy a new engine or they can fix the area of the bolt (not the best explanation but this was not a good choice if I was keeping the car) NO I'M NOT! This is my only car. I have 2 cars on reserve to buy but as you know the availability of cars is ZERO and I have to wait until December, 2022. Sorry but I'm just venting as this is my first (and last BMW). I have taken very good care of it. The dealer has done all maintenance and car was last checked 5/5/2022. A new motor mount was replaced (warranty) at this time and I was told the car was in perfect condition..... comments??? I'm sick about this. I do have a loaner ... otherwise I'd be lost! So really can't take the car elsewhere as I need a car.

[Shagohod]

Similar to OP, my X1 has just lost compression in a single cylinder at 55k miles. I am within warranty, however warranty will only cover up to the value of the car. Repairs will come to $23k leaving me on the hook for probably a few grand at least. Dealer still has to borescope the engine to determine the exact failure, yet they are already recommending a complete engine replacement. I asked my service rep to contact BMW goodwill, hopeful that they will reduce the price enough that everything will be covered by warranty, problem is I’m the second owner(bought at 26k miles Feb. 2020) so we’ll see how amenable they are. FWIW I have all service records showing the car was well maintained, oil changes always done before needed, etc…

I want to say that my interaction with staff at the dealership has been phenomenal, however I was frustrated because I brought them the results of the compression test and they were still adamant it was a spark plug failure. I insisted that plugs are removed for a compression test, but eventually let them replace the plugs. I picked up the car, drove 10 feet, lo and behold the CEL and “drivetrain malfunction” warning comes back on. I trust my service rep will be a good advocate for me, however if I am still on the hook for thousands of dollars would it be unreasonable of me to request my moneys paid for the spark plug change be rolled into servicing the actual problem?

Lastly, reading this and a couple other people with the exact same problem, I’m wondering if I should keep the car when all is said and done. Feels like a waste to not drive a car with a brand new engine, however this has all felt like such a slap in the face because TWO DAYS before this failure I paid the car off completely, which was almost two years before the technical pay-off date.


EDIT: Forgot to add this tidbit increasing my frustration, the car just had $15k of repair work done after I was rear-ended less than a year ago. Thankfully covered by the other drivers insurance. Between that and this it’s almost $40k in repairs under one year so I feel reasonable in my belief that I’m cursed driving this car

[metron]

2016 BMW X1. Dead at 97000km. About 18 days after the extended warranty expired.

I don't know the exact problem yet, but there are two vanos related codes (130304/130308) and the dealer thought it would be a cylinder head replacement.

Never saw this coming. It was fine until it wasn't. Check engine light, hesitation, stall on first-start.. It happened in another city so I'm waiting on transport right now.