[Arthur55]

Hi,

Today whilst driving without the A/C on, or the auto on, just manual settings, I seemed to have a problem with the heater/ ventilation. Just using manual control, I had no warmth in the air unless I turned it up to nearly 26 degrees.

Anything below this caused condensation on the outside of the windscreen as we travelled along.

Without auto on, or A/C on, surely the lowest temp on manual is the temp that the ambient air is at as it enters the vehicle?

Anyone any ideas?

Thanks,

Arthur.

[oakey46]

No, sorry. But I just leave my aircon switched on (auto setting) all the time (summer/winter) with the temperature set at around 20c. The way aircon systems operate on cars nowadays the effect on fuel consumption is minimal. I have looked at fuel consumption with and without the auto aircon switched on and haven't seen any really discernible difference. On very hot days, such as those forecast for the coming UK weekend, I may turn up the temperature setting a little so that the system isn't working quite so hard.
An additional consideration/benefit of keeping the aircon running is that it ensures the system seals are properly lubricated (from the system refrigerant), thus avoiding the expense of having to have the seals replaced because they have dried out.

[rice_rocket88]

I think the key point a lot of people miss.. is that Air Conditioning is not for COLD air.. but it's to dehumidify the air.. you must have had a very humid day, and thus no wonder you were getting fogging.. just leave it on auto and adjust the temperature how you want.. you'll find that most of the time the a/c is actually on, and you can get some nice heat.

[Arthur55]

Ah thanks all.

The day was not overly hot. 18 degrees give or take a few either way.

Not overly humid.

Somebody has told me that the air con will, even with the system off, come on to keep the humidity below a level. Don’t know if this is true.

As we didn’t have the air con on all day seemed strange that with no real extremes of temp the windscreen had condensation on the outside, so the car was blowing cold air into the screen even though the manual temp was set over 20 deg.

[Peter_R]

Originally Posted by rice_rocket88

I think the key point a lot of people miss.. is that Air Conditioning is not for COLD air.. but it's to dehumidify the air.. you must have had a very humid day, and thus no wonder you were getting fogging.. just leave it on auto and adjust the temperature how you want.. you'll find that most of the time the a/c is actually on, and you can get some nice heat.

Yes! Exactly! Leave it on all the time.

[kavatski]

Originally Posted by Arthur55

Somebody has told me that the air con will, even with the system off, come on to keep the humidity below a level. Don’t know if this is true.

This is indeed true. We don’t leave it in Auto mode in the summer, and generally keep the A/C off unless needed, but it will still come on automatically when it’s humid.

[Peter_R]

Originally Posted by kavatski

This is indeed true. We don’t leave it in Auto mode in the summer, and generally keep the A/C off unless needed, but it will still come on automatically when it’s humid.

On any BMW if it is off, it is off! If if it is set on automatic, it will keep it at a predetermined level. Same for most European made vehicles.

Most drivers do not know that Air Conditioning dries the air out as it enters the cabin.

[kavatski]

Originally Posted by Peter_R

On any BMW if it is off, it is off!

No. There is a humidity sensor that will turn it on, even when not in Auto mode. The light on the A/C button remains off, but you can clearly feel the change in the air. I was surprised by this behaviour and a google search indicates that it’s common to other BMW models.

Those who leave it in Auto mode all the time would be unaware of this.

[oakey46]

I agree with the comments made by Peter_R, but would also add that the Owner's Handbook states that, with the system in Auto program, a condensation sensor also controls the program so that window condensation is avoided as much as possible.
The Owners Handbook goes on to say that 'if the AUTO aircon system is deactivated, outside air flows into the interior continuously. Continuous recirculated-air mode deteriorates the air quality in the interior and condensation on the windows increases'.
A further aspect is that if you switch off the Automatic Air Recirculation control, you will quite likely see the condensation build up. So best to leave that in automatic recirculation mode and it will go into recirculated air mode if outside pollutants are detected and until the air supply returns to normal (eg after following a car with a smoking exhaust etc).
The moral of all this is that you should simply set the climate control/aircon to AUTO and ensure the Air Recirculation button is also in Auto (A) mode.

[Peter_R]

Originally Posted by oakey46

I agree with the comments made by Peter_R, but would also add that the Owner's Handbook states that, with the system in Auto program, a condensation sensor also controls the program so that window condensation is avoided as much as possible.
A further aspect is that if you switch off the Automatic Air Recirculation control, you will quite likely see the condensation build up. So best to leave that in automatic recirculation mode and it will go into recirculated air mode if outside pollutants are detected and until the air supply returns to normal (eg after following a car with a smoking exhaust etc).
The moral of all this is that you should simply set the climate control/aircon to AUTO and ensure the Air Recirculation button is also in Auto (A) mode.

Absolutely correct. Thanks for expanding on this further.

[kavatski]

Originally Posted by oakey46

I agree with the comments made by Peter_R, but would also add that the Owner's Handbook states that, with the system in Auto program, a condensation sensor also controls the program so that window condensation is avoided as much as possible.
The Owners Handbook goes on to say that 'if the AUTO aircon system is deactivated, outside air flows into the interior continuously. Continuous recirculated-air mode deteriorates the air quality in the interior and condensation on the windows increases'.

Yes, I also consulted the manual after noticing it, and the way it’s written is how you’d expect it to work. However, the A/C coming on automatically, even when not in Auto mode, appears to be an undocumented feature, shared at least by the F30 series, judging by posts in that forum.

I live near the ocean in an area where temperatures are generally moderate but it can be fairly humid, and on those days I frequently drive with the windows down and roof open. The drastic change in the airflow from the A/C coming on unbidden is unmistakable. Shutting the HVAC system off is the only way to override it.

[Peter_R]

Originally Posted by kavatski

Yes, I also consulted the manual after noticing it, and the way it’s written is how you’d expect it to work. However, the A/C coming on automatically, even when not in Auto mode, appears to be an undocumented feature, shared at least by the F30 series, judging by posts in that forum.

I live near the ocean in an area where temperatures are generally moderate but it can be fairly humid, and on those days I frequently drive with the windows down and roof open. The drastic change in the airflow from the A/C coming on unbidden is unmistakable. Shutting the HVAC system off is the only way to override it.

With the greatest respect, there is no hidden feature with the Air Conditioning. No matter whether you live near the Ocean or on top of a mountain. Here is the official BMW Genius video explaining ALL aspects of the way it works:

Also, the following youtube video (not BMW official) even confirms this...

[kavatski]

Again, the behaviour is unmistakable, and well-documented by other BMW owners on this site and elsewhere. A simple search turns up numerous examples.

I wish you were correct -- I don't want the A/C turning on when I have it set to off -- but this is how BMW has designed the HVAC logic to avoid window fogging.

[Peter_R]

Originally Posted by kavatski

Again, the behaviour is unmistakable, and well-documented by other BMW owners on this site and elsewhere. A simple search turns up numerous examples.

I wish you were correct -- I don't want the A/C turning on when I have it set to off -- but this is how BMW has designed the HVAC logic to avoid window fogging.

You obviously did not follow the BMW Genius's video that I posted. Remember it is not me talking on the Video IT IS BMW.
Also it is worth noting that the Original Poster "Arthur55" came onto this forum for genuine information.

So "Arthur55" irrespective of this so called "Hidden A/C feature", I would suggest you have another look at the two videos that I posted earlier on. You cannot go wrong if you have a few minutes to spare to get an understanding of what is going on.

[kavatski]

I watched it, and the behaviour I’m referencing is not addressed at all, so it’s completely irrelevant to the point I’m making. I was simply confirming that the OP received correct information when he recounted having heard that the A/C will come on automatically, even when off, to keep the cabin humidity down. That’s all.

[Peter_R]

Originally Posted by kavatski

I watched it, and the behaviour I’m referencing is not addressed at all, so it’s completely irrelevant to the point I’m making.

Of course it is not addressed because the way you describe the mode does not exist! If it had, then it would have been spoken about and how it operates in the BMW video by the BMW Genius.

Originally Posted by kavatski

I was simply confirming that the OP received correct information when he recounted having heard that the A/C will come on automatically, even when off, to keep the cabin humidity down. That’s all.

No. He did not receive the correct information from you. As has been stated the correct way, is stated in the official video. Also the AC will NOT come on automatically if it is switched off.

The second video elucidates, and you should watch it again until you understand how it works. You will see The car's system DOES NOT EVER SWITCH the Air conditioning on. You have to switch it on yourself

I will not be visiting this subject again. There is absolutely no point. The facts have been stated by the official video and the follow up one.

Original Poster - Arthur55- I will be sending you a Private Message on the subject.

[Skyline2.0]

Arthur55,

kavatski is correct in that other BMW owners, including non X1 folks, have raised concerns of a behavior described as the AC turning on by itself even when the AC button is off.

Look in the Bimmerfest forums, or do a quick Google search, and you'll find other posts describing a similar behavior.

Take people's comments, including my own, with a grain of salt.

[kavatski]

Thank you. As amusing as it is to debate the operation of a product you're familiar with with someone who isn't, it can wear a bit thin.

While researching this, I did find coding that some other owners suggested will disable the "phantom A/C" behaviour, but haven't gotten around to trying it out.

[Peter_R]

Originally Posted by Skyline2.0

Arthur55,

kavatski is correct in that other BMW owners, including non X1 folks, have raised concerns of a behavior described as the AC turning on by itself even when the AC button is off.

Look in the Bimmerfest forums, or do a quick Google search, and you'll find other posts describing a similar behavior.

Take people's comments, including my own, with a grain of salt.

Yes concerns are raised by people who do not understand the system and its automatic functions and how it works. You only have to read through the threads to see why.
How many BMWs have been built, with the owners understanding how the A/C works versus how many of the owners do not understand how to operate it correctly? A would say the percentage as very low. Even then, BMW felt that it was best to have one of their employees (BMW Genius) clarify and to post a video on how it works. Also with the second video posted to clarify the switching it on/off.
When I had my E91 in 2007 I had to play around with its A/C to see how it worked.

Arthur55 Presumably your car is new or at least under warranty? If so, I would suggest you go along to your dealership and get the Genius there to check it with you. It only takes a few minutes and give you the answer.

[kavatski]

We've certainly seen who here understands the system, I'll agree with that.

In one of the other forum threads where people are wondering why the auto defog function comes on even in manual mode with A/C switched off, someone mentioned that they took the car in to the dealership to ask the "Genius"... and the person had no idea. And why should they? It's not in the manual; it's not even in the IHKA technical documentation that another poster checked. And the majority who leave it in Auto all the time would never notice that this can happen, so it's going to be a very uncommon question. When it comes to oddities like this, I'll take the collective experience and knowledge of other BMW owners any day.

Ultimately, it's pretty bold to claim, without experience or evidence, that something numerous people have personally witnessed is impossible. To be taken even remotely seriously, anyone making such a claim would need to supply an extremely convincing alternative explanation -- much more convincing than "You just don't understand how it works." So far, for all the huffing and puffing, we've yet to see one.

[Peter_R]

Originally Posted by kavatski

We've certainly seen who here understands the system, I'll agree with that.

In one of the other forum threads where people are wondering why the auto defog function comes on even in manual mode with A/C switched off, someone mentioned that they took the car in to the dealership to ask the "Genius"... and the person had no idea. And why should they? It's not in the manual; it's not even in the IHKA technical documentation that another poster checked. And the majority who leave it in Auto all the time would never notice that this can happen, so it's going to be a very uncommon question. When it comes to oddities like this, I'll take the collective experience and knowledge of other BMW owners any day.

Ultimately, it's pretty bold to claim, without experience or evidence, that something numerous people have personally witnessed is impossible. To be taken even remotely seriously, anyone making such a claim would need to supply an extremely convincing alternative explanation -- much more convincing than "You just don't understand how it works." So far, for all the huffing and puffing, we've yet to see one.

You really are having a problem! You want me to prove what is already shown in a video as fact? You think I do not understand? Seriously? What are you thinking? Having held a licenced since 1960 (and been an engineer since 1962 that has worked on A/C since it was installed in cars) and driven BMWs since they were imported into the UK, I think I have enough credentials to know what I am on about. All you can show is anecdotal evidence in posts. Not one of the posts has proved that there is a problem, just more anecdotal responses.
Go and get yourself some different sized spades. Choose one to dig yourself out of the hole you have got yourself in talking about how right you are and convincing yourself you are correct. Now here is the correct answer for the last time.... and it quotes the manual for the X1

Originally Posted by oakey46

I agree with the comments made by Peter_R, but would also add that the Owner's Handbook states that, with the system in Auto program, a condensation sensor also controls the program so that window condensation is avoided as much as possible.
The Owners Handbook goes on to say that 'if the AUTO aircon system is deactivated, outside air flows into the interior continuously. Continuous recirculated-air mode deteriorates the air quality in the interior and condensation on the windows increases'.
A further aspect is that if you switch off the Automatic Air Recirculation control, you will quite likely see the condensation build up. So best to leave that in automatic recirculation mode and it will go into recirculated air mode if outside pollutants are detected and until the air supply returns to normal (eg after following a car with a smoking exhaust etc).
The moral of all this is that you should simply set the climate control/aircon to AUTO and ensure the Air Recirculation button is also in Auto (A) mode.

I will not be answering anymore. I might wave to you though as I see fit to read your missives. It is absolutely pointless because you have no idea about what you are talking about even when someone (oaky46) posts information from the X1 manual.

Goodbye and good luck convincing yourself.

[kavatski]

What do I need to convince myself of? Unlike you, I’m familiar with the vehicle, have seen that it operates as I’ve said, and the experience of many others backs me up. For reasonable people, that would settle it. In your determination to “prove” me wrong, however, you’ve offered bluster, outright dismissal, a couple of irrelevant YouTube videos, and summarily declared the proceedings over. Did you really expect to be taken seriously?

Goodbye indeed, although I do wish you the best with your incoming X1.