M3 or M5?

[catpat8000]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

The M5 is more of an executive luxo bahn stormer. It can handle an occasional track day, but it's not where it shines.

If you take an M5, with it's huge weight, on a track and don't end up boiling your brake fluid in 2 laps, you haven't been driving it very hard.

[myzmak]

I'd generally agree with the other posts here.

The M5 and M3 are really different cars (even though, as noted, they are getting very close in pricing here in Canadiana).

As you'll see from my info, I've got an E class and an E90 (non-M). The cars are very very different. The E350 is a great car...for ordinary driving, road trips, etc. It is just bigger, it feels bigger, and you can't ignore the size. The same would (I expect) apply to an M5. No matter how sporty, its just a bigger car and will always drive and feel like one.

The question back to you is: What do you want the car for? Is this a f----n nice family hauler to to look great in the golf course parking lot and make every other car on the highway jealous? If so, an M5 might work.

If you want a car that is going to be lighter, smaller and thus (we assume) feel much more nimble, etc, but not be nearly as useful when you haul your wife, kids, luggage, etc on a 500 mile drive to Grandmas, the M3 would be the one to get.

Either way, talk about first world problems.....

[Brosef]

Originally Posted by myzmak

I'd generally agree with the other posts here.

The M5 and M3 are really different cars (even though, as noted, they are getting very close in pricing here in Canadiana).

As you'll see from my info, I've got an E class and an E90 (non-M). The cars are very very different. The E350 is a great car...for ordinary driving, road trips, etc. It is just bigger, it feels bigger, and you can't ignore the size. The same would (I expect) apply to an M5. No matter how sporty, its just a bigger car and will always drive and feel like one.

The question back to you is: What do you want the car for? Is this a f----n nice family hauler to to look great in the golf course parking lot and make every other car on the highway jealous? If so, an M5 might work.

If you want a car that is going to be lighter, smaller and thus (we assume) feel much more nimble, etc, but not be nearly as useful when you haul your wife, kids, luggage, etc on a 500 mile drive to Grandmas, the M3 would be the one to get.

Either way, talk about first world problems.....

agreed. however, I don't think the M3 is much less useful. I'd put it slightly differently and say that the M3 is less comfortable for long hauls or for carrying 4 adults on a more regular basis.

[///M ARMY]

Test drive both. I was in the same boat. I wanted an M5 but it does drive and feel bulky. That's my personal opinion. This is why I opted for an M3 sedan instead. The interior leg space is very minimal compared side by side. I had the dealer place both cars side by side and you will see the size wise not much of a difference.

Still deciding if I should get this car over a GTR

[Ridonculous]

With a couple of more mods, my 135i will have a ton more power than the new M3. I plan to make my 135i a fun daily driver/sleeper that i will ocassionally track.

Im looking at the new M3 or M5 to get into the M brand from a performance, luxury, and family hauler perspective.

The M3 is definitely more on the affordable side when compared to the M5, but with my 135i being modded for power and suspension, i'm afraid it may come very close to the new M3 in sportiness.

I've driven an e92 M3 and although in people's eyes, I drive "just" a 135i, my car is definitely a sleeper unless you know what the N54/E82 setup is capable of.

It makes me want to lean toward the M5, especially the potential of the power plant with supreme luxury, but the size of the car is a drag. I think the size of the M3 is much more appealing.

Interesting to read all the different perspectives.

[Black Gold]

Originally Posted by Ridonculous

With a couple of more mods, my 135i will have a ton more power than the new M3. I plan to make my 135i a fun daily driver/sleeper that i will ocassionally track.

Im looking at the new M3 or M5 to get into the M brand from a performance, luxury, and family hauler perspective.

The M3 is definitely more on the affordable side when compared to the M5, but with my 135i being modded for power and suspension, i'm afraid it may come very close to the new M3 in sportiness.

I've driven an e92 M3 and although in people's eyes, I drive "just" a 135i, my car is definitely a sleeper unless you know what the N54/E82 setup is capable of.

It makes me want to lean toward the M5, especially the potential of the power plant with supreme luxury, but the size of the car is a drag. I think the size of the M3 is much more appealing.

Interesting to read all the different perspectives.

I don't think your 135 is in any danger of outperforming the new m3 in any way shape or form. Your car weighs more, has no LSD, has terrible brakes, has an extremely soft suspension and bushings and has a much shorter wheelbase and much much narrower track and cant fit decent width wheels or tires under the fenders.

I had a FBO 1M, and I fully expect the new M3 to be faster and destroy it in terms of handling. In order to have "a ton more power" than the new m3 you better have new turbos and be on e85 and meth, otherwise you're just blowing smoke. I would be willing to bet the new m3 makes 400 to the wheels stock.

[paddy335]

In the OP's shoes I would go all out on the 135i and make it a road legal track/targa car, and get the M5 (which you could also use to tow the 135 to the track or local BMW race series if necessary). Who needs to track the M5 (or M3) if you have a race car in the garage.

In this scenario you'll get plenty of fun on the track and for fast road when the mood strikes, plus you'll have a beautiful rapid super-saloon.

[RPiM5]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

It can handle an occasional track day, but it's not where it shines. On the other hand, the M3 is one of the best all rounders out there.

Exactly.

Originally Posted by Needsdecaf

However, if you have any inclination to track the car, the M5 isn't the car to do it in.

Yes. I've tracked my F10 M5 before, it's too heavy for the track. If you get off line, the weight of the car will definitely make you pay for it.

Originally Posted by Kief

, but with the M5 currently selling at or near invoice and the F80/82 rates likely to be dismal, from a financial perspective the two may be close.

Exactly right. You can option out an F80 M3 fully loaded even with Carbon Ceramic brakes and still be under the base price of an F10 M5 at $92K. Most F10 M5's are selling at invoice or below today if you are negotiating with a good dealer. However, if you option out an F10 M5 fully loaded, it's U.S. Invoice price will still be over $110K.

Originally Posted by BMWJ

now that the current M3 is the size of previous M5's .......

I loved the size of the E60 M5 and the F80 M3 is damn close to it.

Originally Posted by tdizzle

but I just saw a very minor tune to the M5 put down 625whp which is ridiculous. Running 11s in a car that big with only minor tweaking is crazy.

Yup, I've seen stock F10 M5's dyno over 600whp with just race gas.

Originally Posted by RealStig

M5 is an extremely large car compared to an M3.

This is the biggest problem I have with the F10 M5. It's too big sometimes. The E60 M5 was a great size and the F80 M3 size is only slightly shorter and little wider.

Originally Posted by Needsdecaf

If you think the interior of the F80 is above the F10 M5, you need to get some new glasses.

One would seriously need glasses indeed.

Originally Posted by tdizzle

I'd expect it to be just as fast in a straight line due to power/weight (maybe not from a roll from 80-140 or something though)

Nope, completely wrong here. I've raced fully modified 135i's and 1///M's making over 450hp and beat them both from a dig and a rolling race with a stock F10 M5. With my modified F10 M5, it's even more embarrassing.

Originally Posted by catpat8000

If you cruise freeways all day long, you might like the M5.

You pretty much hit the nail on the head here. You can't beat the daily commute with the luxurious Full Merino Leather Interior, Bang & Olufsen sound system, seat cooler ventilation, and butt massagers from the Executive Package in the F10 M5. It's 7x more luxurious than the F80 M3 and 5x more luxurious than the E60 M5. How do I know, I've sat in the F80 M3 and have owned the E60 M5 with the Full Leather Interior and Comfort Seats.

Originally Posted by catpat8000

If you take an M5, with it's huge weight, on a track and don't end up boiling your brake fluid in 2 laps, you haven't been driving it very hard.

Exactly the reason why I put ATE Super Blue in my F10 M5's brake lines. Made a big difference on the track. I'd say it cut the brake fade in at least half.

Originally Posted by UAM951

Test drive both.

Exactly. You just have to remember the F80 M3 is a $30,000 cheaper car and there is a reason for it. Or think of it the other way around too, the F10M5 is a $30,000 more expensive car and there is a reason for it. Although close in a lot of ways, both have their strengths and weaknesses, you just have to decided what do you want if you could afford either one.

[Ridonculous]

Originally Posted by KennyPowers

I don't think your 135 is in any danger of outperforming the new m3 in any way shape or form. Your car weighs more, has no LSD, has terrible brakes, has an extremely soft suspension and bushings and has a much shorter wheelbase and much much narrower track and cant fit decent width wheels or tires under the fenders.

I had a FBO 1M, and I fully expect the new M3 to be faster and destroy it in terms of handling.

Thanks for the feedback, but I wasn't trying to say my modded 1er will out perform the M3. My 1er will get eaten up on the track by the M3, especially on the endurance side. But a stop light race or some friendly driving on the freeway, I will see most M3s in my rearview mirror.

What I was trying to say is that my modded 135i fulfills my need for the sportiness of the M3. The new M3 engine is based off of the establishment of the N54 and I feel I'm wringing out alot of the power of the N54 from my 1er.

The M3 of course is on a different league compared to my 1er, but I'm already used to a similar engine.

Given that, the M5 is more appealing coz of the engine potential and luxury, but I like the look and size of the M3, just not the potential of power plant coz I already have a N54 1er. I guess I'm referring to the engine comparison as "sportiness". Not sure what esle to call it haha.

[Neil McRae]

Originally Posted by catpat8000

If you take an M5, with it's huge weight, on a track and don't end up boiling your brake fluid in 2 laps, you haven't been driving it very hard.

i've taken both my M5's round a track pretty aggressively and not boiled the brake fluid. Most people know to change the OEM fluid into something a bit better. The old M3 suffered this, and the M3 and the M4 will suffer the same. I'd be more worried about the pads taking it.

Neil.

[RPiM5]

Originally Posted by Ridonculous

Given that, the M5 is more appealing coz of the engine potential and luxury, but I like the look and size of the M3, just not the potential of power plant coz I already have a N54 1er. I guess I'm referring to the engine comparison as "sportiness". Not sure what esle to call it haha.

I'm sure once you drive the F80 M3 with it's 7,550rpm redline turbo engine you will change your perspective. What does the N54 1er redline at again?

[Neil McRae]

i think when everyone drives the M3, all of these whingers will disappear. was the same when we went E46->E92. The E92 was abused (even by the press) before anyone drove it.
It wasn't just a little bit better than the E46. It was humiliatingly better than the E46. I believe the same will be true with this new car.

[LSM]

I'd go with M3....I've have a new M6 which I thought handled and drove considerably better than the LCI M5 i test drove....

[Ridonculous]

Originally Posted by RPiM5

I'm sure once you drive the F80 M3 with it's 7,550rpm redline turbo engine you will change your perspective. What does the N54 1er redline at again?

Redlines at 7k.

True, test drive will tell all, but remember im comparing the M3 and M5, not my 1er.

I havent driven the new M5, but I think I might be a little more biased towards it.

[LSM]

Originally Posted by Neil McRae

i think when everyone drives the M3, all of these whingers will disappear. was the same when we went E46->E92. The E92 was abused (even by the press) before anyone drove it.
It wasn't just a little bit better than the E46. It was humiliatingly better than the E46. I believe the same will be true with this new car.

I for one, don't see the argument for the E92...The new one is more powerful, faster, lighter, looks much better (my opinion) interior better and for barely more money...

[tdizzle]

Originally Posted by Neil McRae

i've taken both my M5's round a track pretty aggressively and not boiled the brake fluid. Most people know to change the OEM fluid into something a bit better. The old M3 suffered this, and the M3 and the M4 will suffer the same. I'd be more worried about the pads taking it.

Neil.

+1

The M5s and M6s at BMW M Performance schools do just fine around the track without 'boiling' brake fluid issues.

The cars are big and heavy, but they sure don't act that way on the track. The figure 8 race on the skid pad was fun in the M5.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by tdizzle

+1

The M5s and M6s at BMW M Performance schools do just fine around the track without 'boiling' brake fluid issues.

The cars are big and heavy, but they sure don't act that way on the track. The figure 8 race on the skid pad was fun in the M5.

+2

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by Ridonculous

Redlines at 7k.

True, test drive will tell all, but remember im comparing the M3 and M5, not my 1er.

I havent driven the new M5, but I think I might be a little more biased towards it.

It redlines at 7,550 (..or 7600 per official numbers); a 335i redlines at 7k. Let's split hairs!

[mister2d]

Originally Posted by tdizzle

+1

The M5s and M6s at BMW M Performance schools do just fine around the track without 'boiling' brake fluid issues.

The cars are big and heavy, but they sure don't act that way on the track. The figure 8 race on the skid pad was fun in the M5.

This man speaks the truth. I've done it myself!

[Tonymiabmw]

When I went from my E60 to my e90 it was so nice to be out of the M5. e90 was so much tighter and agile. M5 felt like a boat to me.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by tdizzle

+1

The M5s and M6s at BMW M Performance schools do just fine around the track without 'boiling' brake fluid issues.

The cars are big and heavy, but they sure don't act that way on the track. The figure 8 race on the skid pad was fun in the M5.

///M Performance schools cannot really be compared to an all out track day or even an HPDE. The cars barely go out for one full lap on a rather tight and short track and mostly in the hands of students that cannot fully exploit the potential of the car. This is a far cry from 20-30 minute sessions at full boil on a high speed track with top speeds in excess of 120mph.

That being said, I still think the F10 M5 brakes can do rather well with track pads at the minimum and better fluid. It is the same with the E9X M3...

[catpat8000]

Originally Posted by tdizzle

+1

The M5s and M6s at BMW M Performance schools do just fine around the track without 'boiling' brake fluid issues.

The cars are big and heavy, but they sure don't act that way on the track.

I can bet you those M5s at the perf school are not running the brake fluid they came with from the factory.

And as for feeling big and heavy at the track, I don't know what to say. When you drive a car in an HPDE which doesn't weigh 4300 lbs, you'll immediately see that the M5 does feel big and heavy.

It's a luxurious, solidly engineered car and it accelerates very hard but you are kidding yourself if you think it's a great track car.

Pat