[QTC]

Start with the 335i - the cars can hold up to HPDE-type use. At some point (i.e., once you start pushing the car harder), you may want to swap to something you can afford to have an off with - $15k leaves you a lot of options (E46 325/330ci's are available for $6k-ish, so the extra money can be used for wheels/tires/brakes/suspension).

I tracked my 320i at Summit Point last weekend; held up well aside from the brakes (but that's to be expected, stock fluid and pads). The chassis balance is great, and the cars are geared well - lots of fun.

[tjlees]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

That's AWESOME!

Is that a radical of some sort?

ariel atom 300 supercharged!

[Professor///M]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

I don't think that's quite it. I re-read the thread and we are telling the OP to change tires, and that there are many inexpensive track cars that are equally fun and potentially more cost effective. It seems like pretty balanced advice

Exactly. Bone stock, no it's not a good track day car. The question really is, where do you want to put the investment?

Do you want to invest in something that is cheap and fun and used, at the risk that it will become a money pit, unreliable, or the additional cost of a 2nd vehicle ownership won't reach its value?

Or do you invest in your current really awesome vehicle, daily driver, that is built to be driven to its limits at the risk of damaging your daily driver by stress, accidents, rock chips, need for 2nd set of rims/tires, etc?

It truly is a tough question that I ask myself daily.

[BmwFlooner]

^ My Eclipse has always been super reliable, but it's not really a track car. Right now I'm just paying for typical wear after events - pads, tires, fluids. So as long as it holds up it makes sense to keep using it and not risk buying a dedicated track car that already has 100k+ miles on it with an unknown maintenance history.

As for the 335, I would probably reach my limit way way ahead of the car's limits stock, I won't be worried about more performance parts on it for quite awhile.

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by JSTDR1V

Exactly. Bone stock, no it's not a good track day car. The question really is, where do you want to put the investment?

Do you want to invest in something that is cheap and fun and used, at the risk that it will become a money pit, unreliable, or the additional cost of a 2nd vehicle ownership won't reach its value?

Or do you invest in your current really awesome vehicle, daily driver, that is built to be driven to its limits at the risk of damaging your daily driver by stress, accidents, rock chips, need for 2nd set of rims/tires, etc?

It truly is a tough question that I ask myself daily.

If your 335 has the m sport package I think its reasonable to give it a shot as an hpde car with different tires.

My 335 is the sport line with just the oil cooler and it was a waste of time to track in stock form. high oil temps and tires started to chunk after 1 session. It's an ultimate commuting machine

My Z435 lease was up and I decided to give BMW another chance with F80 m3. I've done 2 days with it already and so far so good. The car is a beast and is much more focused. The oil temps were completely stable at the normal operating temperature, and the 15" steel brakes and more aggressive suspension setup were great.

When the 335 lease is up next year I will probably replace it with an i3 or 328 or some other truly commuter focused car to max out on cost savings rather than go back to the middle of the road 335/340

[Blubaron79]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

If your 335 has the m sport package I think its reasonable to give it a shot as an hpde car with different tires.

My 335 is the sport line with just the oil cooler and it was a waste of time to track in stock form. high oil temps and tires started to chunk after 1 session. It's an ultimate commuting machine

My Z435 lease was up and I decided to give BMW another chance with F80 m3. I've done 2 days with it already and so far so good. The car is a beast and is much more focused. The oil temps were completely stable at the normal operating temperature, and the 15" steel brakes and more aggressive suspension setup were great.

When the 335 lease is up next year I will probably replace it with an i3 or 328 or some other truly commuter focused car to max out on cost savings rather than go back to the middle of the road 335/340

Whoa.. Were you running all season tires??

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by Blubaron79

Whoa.. Were you running all season tires??

stock summer RFT (contisporcontact5). I think the issue is with that tire specifically, because I've tracked the prev gen of RFT (050A, 050A I, 050A II) and they were obviously not the greatest but not as bad as the current RFT

[Blubaron79]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

stock summer RFT (contisporcontact5). I think the issue is with that tire specifically, because I've tracked the prev gen of RFT (050A, 050A I, 050A II) and they were obviously not the greatest but not as bad as the current RFT

We ran some new 4 series around the track hard all day with BMW. Run flat AS and run flat summers. No issues. I'm going to try to track my 335 this summer with continental run flats. We'll see!

[BmwFlooner]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

If your 335 has the m sport package I think its reasonable to give it a shot as an hpde car with different tires.

My 335 is the sport line with just the oil cooler and it was a waste of time to track in stock form. high oil temps and tires started to chunk after 1 session. It's an ultimate commuting machine

My Z435 lease was up and I decided to give BMW another chance with F80 m3. I've done 2 days with it already and so far so good. The car is a beast and is much more focused. The oil temps were completely stable at the normal operating temperature, and the 15" steel brakes and more aggressive suspension setup were great.

When the 335 lease is up next year I will probably replace it with an i3 or 328 or some other truly commuter focused car to max out on cost savings rather than go back to the middle of the road 335/340

That's one reason I went with the M-Sport, the additional cooler. I assume it's actually beneficial - not just make people feel the car could be awesome IF they actually went to a track. If, however, the cooling isn't sufficient, are there aftermarket options?

By the time I'd consider taking the 335 out it'd be time for new tires anyway. I have the stock RF summer performance on there now. I've been wondering if I should consider going non RF.

[M-terkait]

Originally Posted by BmwFlooner

That's one reason I went with the M-Sport, the additional cooler. I assume it's actually beneficial - not just make people feel the car could be awesome IF they actually went to a track. If, however, the cooling isn't sufficient, are there aftermarket options?

By the time I'd consider taking the 335 out it'd be time for new tires anyway. I have the stock RF summer performance on there now. I've been wondering if I should consider going non RF.

Msport in here doesn't get 2 coolers even in the hottest country in the world #Kuwait
i need aftermarket coolers before attempting to any track around or i'll have to retrofit E9x ER coolers inside there. somehow.

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by Blubaron79

We ran some new 4 series around the track hard all day with BMW. Run flat AS and run flat summers. No issues. I'm going to try to track my 335 this summer with continental run flats. We'll see!

Maybe they were different OEM tires. As I said earlier, I've used the bridgestone RFT in the past and there ok. The continental RFT were worse.

Pretty sure it isn't going to work well if you have the same continental RFT as I do.

M sport package here in the US has a higher wattage radiator fan and an additional radiator in front of the driver side tire

[Blubaron79]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

Maybe they were different OEM tires. As I said earlier, I've used the bridgestone RFT in the past and there ok. The continental RFT were worse.

Pretty sure it isn't going to work well if you have the same continental RFT as I do.

M sport package here in the US has a higher wattage radiator fan and an additional radiator in front of the driver side tire

I have Bridgestone Potenzas on my 335. My 435 had P Zeros.
The M sport has an additional oil cooler; that is not a radiator. I had no idea the fan was different.

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by Blubaron79

I have Bridgestone Potenzas on my 335. My 435 had P Zeros.
The M sport has an additional oil cooler; that is not a radiator. I had no idea the fan was different.

Big difference I think between those tires and the Contisportcontact 5 RFT. I also tracked my Z4 with the Bridgestone 050A I RFT and that was better

As for the additional heat exchanger, it is called "auxiliary radiator" by real OEM and the lines looked like coolant and not oil lines. You'd know better since you have that car. Just sourcing where I got the info. 335 is my wife's commuter so I didn't care too much about the cooling when I got it. Just wanted to track it once before ordering the M3 to make myself feel extra cool about the decision.

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...49&hg=17&fg=05

As for the fan, it is 850W for m sport and 600W for non m sport. Similar situation with the 1M and E9X 335is having that fan and additional heat exchanger setup versus the Z435i/is and F3X/E9X 335 having just the oil cooler and 600W fan

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...33&hg=17&fg=05

[Blubaron79]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

Big difference I think between those tires and the Contisportcontact 5 RFT. I also tracked my Z4 with the Bridgestone 050A I RFT and that was better

As for the additional heat exchanger, it is called "auxiliary radiator" by real OEM and the lines looked like coolant and not oil lines. You'd know better since you have that car. Just sourcing where I got the info. 335 is my wife's commuter so I didn't care too much about the cooling when I got it. Just wanted to track it once before ordering the M3 to make myself feel extra cool about the decision.

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...49&hg=17&fg=05

As for the fan, it is 850W for m sport and 600W for non m sport. Similar situation with the 1M and E9X 335is having that fan and additional heat exchanger setup versus the Z435i/is and F3X/E9X 335 having just the oil cooler and 600W fan

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...33&hg=17&fg=05

Yay for the better fan!!

[BmwFlooner]

Took the Eclipse out to the track this past weekend:

She held up much better this time. Tires and brakes make a world of difference. No brake fade at all. I had new tires, pads, rotors, and a much higher grade fluid installed. I failed to bed the pads before the event, so they were smoking after the first run - which is pretty awesome to see. But after that - solid braking with no burning brake smoke-stank. The old girl may have some more time than I thought in her still.

Also I thought you would enjoy the part of the clip with me passing a Porsche in an Eclipse. (Ignore the fact that neither of us are any good.)

[drob23]

Originally Posted by BmwFlooner

She held up much better this time. Tires and brakes make a world of difference. No brake fade at all. I had new tires, pads, rotors, and a much higher grade fluid installed. I failed to bed the pads before the event, so they were smoking after the first run - which is pretty awesome to see. But after that - solid braking with no burning brake smoke-stank. The old girl may have some more time than I thought in her still.

I find it kind of logistically hard to properly bed the race pads. In a sense, if you daily drive with race pads, you'll remove the bedded transfer layer because the pads are so abrasive while cold. So ideally you want to bed the pads/rotors the night before your first track day...do some quick country road limit braking lol Which is sketchy because track pads require 70-10 type limit stops to properly bed.

The other choice is to bed during the first session, but that kind of sucks because you're acting like an a-hole out there, and you really want to pit in and let them cool once your bed-in procedure is complete, which should be a couple laps. So you lost the first session.

From a practical point, not bedding your pads will likely result in much faster pad wear. Because these track compounds rely on chemical adhesion between the pad and the transfer layer on the rotor....not abrasive forces like you'll get without a transfer layer bedded to the rotor.

[3liter1]

Originally Posted by drob23

I didn't read through this super close, but I'm surprised no one suggested a brake fluid flush. I'd say that is the most important maintenance step. Bleed in new race fluid, something like Motul RBF 600. Then between events, bleed out the nasty fluid in each caliper and put some fresh fluid in there.

Also, glad to hear good things about the ZII. I just picked up a set of VMR V810's for a dedicated track setup, and 18" ZII's are only like $170 on clearance at TR, due to the new ZII SS coming out. Was thinking about trying NT01, but I'm still learning so I'll stick with street tires for now.

You will have to flush the brake fluid within the
Last year to pass a track day tech inspection with BMWCCA

[3liter1]

Originally Posted by BmwFlooner

So, my poor 12 year old Eclipse may have to be retired soon. I've been tracking and autocrossing it, but the repair and maintenance is starting to get to the point where it doesn't make sense not to invest that money in performance parts for my 335i.

I'm fairly new to the whole performance driving scene, and BMWs, so I don't know what to expect from normal wear & tear and maintenance costs if I start taking the BMW out. I'm also not sure what to expect from long-term performance driving. We're talking maybe 1 event a month.

Or does it make sense to get another dedicated track car (My wife actually offered that suggestion, which blew my mind.)

My BMW is an F30 335i M-Sport 6MT with DHP. A dedicated track car would need to be in the 15k range, so it would need to be a used 'something'. Preferably a RWD coup.

What would you guys do?

What organization have you been tracking the eclipse at? As you mention, you seem to be new to this.. For initial track days, just drive what you have..Expect a lot of tire wear. Also, BMWCCA and other reputable organizations will require you show up with at least 50% brake pads. There is also a big difference between autoX and track driving as you mention..
As most veterans will tell you,you will learn more driving a slower car with good suspension and brakes than a really fast car.. I know some who had to spend thousands after track days replacing warped rotors and worn tires because they just hammered their way around the track...

[3liter1]

Originally Posted by BmwFlooner

Took the Eclipse out to the track this past weekend:

She held up much better this time. Tires and brakes make a world of difference. No brake fade at all. I had new tires, pads, rotors, and a much higher grade fluid installed. I failed to bed the pads before the event, so they were smoking after the first run - which is pretty awesome to see. But after that - solid braking with no burning brake smoke-stank. The old girl may have some more time than I thought in her still.

Also I thought you would enjoy the part of the clip with me passing a Porsche in an Eclipse. (Ignore the fact that neither of us are any good.)

OOPS.. I just saw this .. Nice driving.. I think you have a lot more experience than I thought ! Still, naturally aspirated engines should be more reliable than turbos if you do more than an occasional track day

[Squiden]

I know I'm coming in late to the thread, but I would really recommend a 2nd car for track use. I used to track my DD 4-5 times a summer, all until I finally had a failure (cracked piston ring), and was without a car for 4-weeks while the engine was rebuilt. I quickly learned that it's not worth the risk trying to make a DD a track car as well. For $13k, I was able to get a decent 2001 Porsche Boxster S for the track that performed awesome, and I could enjoy it as a weekend car as well (... Until I rolled it at the track, but that's a separate story :-(

Unless you can deal with downtime of your DD for repairs, a second car is a must imo.

My 2 cents, anyway.

[tjlees]

Originally Posted by Squiden

I know I'm coming in late to the thread, but I would really recommend a 2nd car for track use. I used to track my DD 4-5 times a summer, all until I finally had a failure (cracked piston ring), and was without a car for 4-weeks while the engine was rebuilt. I quickly learned that it's not worth the risk trying to make a DD a track car as well. For $13k, I was able to get a decent 2001 Porsche Boxster S for the track that performed awesome, and I could enjoy it as a weekend car as well (... Until I rolled it at the track, but that's a separate story :-(

Unless you can deal with downtime of your DD for repairs, a second car is a must imo.

My 2 cents, anyway.

+1
My first serious off made be realise that trailering the track car was the only option. I'm glad I did - several times I've broken it, which apart from the inconvenience of getting home, you would have work round it while it's repaired.

Away my DD has laughnav, reversing camera, rear seats and 3500lb to haul round a track. Not really ideal IMHO.

[vanbmw]

TJLEES...dedicated track car for the reasons you mentioned is great. However, that is a serious investment. First you need a tow vehicle...truck or big SUV to tow it. Trailer needs to be insured (not much $$$ here) and you need to store it somewhere. A great solution but a investment. If you can afford it then it is a great idea.

The F30 is not a bad track car. I help out at many track days and see BMW lapping and they do great. It is a heavier sedan and there are overheating issues with the N54 engines but really not too bad. I have seen much worse problems with other cars. My only issue is a new 335 is a fairly pricey car. Great daily driver but I don't think it is a great investment to add $5000 to the car to make it better for the track. I would spend that $$$ on a track car.

I listed some cars earlier that I would look into if it was me. As much as TJLEES idea of a dedicated track car that you trailer is great...we are talking serious money. I say get a $5000 car that is stripped out for track duty but still street legal. Take it out for a fun run once in a while on the street. Drive it to the track and drive it as hard as you can. Do the maintenance yourself. That is part of the fun in my mind.