[Theruleslawyer]

This is fun. ATF has been pulling the same bs lately too.

[Torgus]

Originally Posted by Theruleslawyer

This is fun. ATF has been pulling the same bs lately too.

What in the fuck...

[vreihen16]

Originally Posted by Theruleslawyer

This is fun. ATF has been pulling the same bs lately too.

This is all the same old news, re-hashing existing gun restrictions in NY as "new laws" so it looks like the current politicians are doing something.

That mis-quoted snip above was about the NYC Mayor requiring a home visit and neighbor interviews as part of the new NYC CCW process. Outside of NYC, the rest of us under state laws have to deal with a deputy home visit (under the guise of verifying your address) and provide four notarized reference forms that they can reach out to and interview in person if they want as part of the CCW application process.

Remember that NYC has always paid their own CCW rules separate from NY State. You had to practically have the police commissioner sign off on an unrestricted CCW, and most of the permits that were issued wouldn't let a gun owner take their pistol out of their residence even for a trip to a shooting range or gun shop for repairs/maintenance. SCOTUS ruled against these things and only for NYC, and they are scrambling to adopt the NY State procedures since AFAIK they were not part of the SCOTUS ruling.

Of course the Albany graboids are using the NYC ruling confusion to push even more changes to the existing NY State laws, like the new enhanced training requirements and social media background checks that have no criteria or approved curriculum.....

[SRod321]

Funny thing is, in my county anyways(Nassau/suffolk), you need 4 character references just for a sportsman/target permit. Does this mean you need four NEW references, or do you have to re-submit these references for a CCW permit?
I'll be honest, I'm not 100% opposed to training requirements, I mean for me personally I like more range time(who doesn't?). Also, if I know people are gonna conceal carry in my state/county/etc, they SHOULD be proficient to a degree but if we're gonna make training a requirement, then there should be reciprocity then or a CCW permit that's honored by EVERY state. The social media monitoring could be a slippery slope I think. Let's be real, the MAJORITY of the gun violence and crimes involving firearms are perpetrated by individuals who #1 don't have a permit and #2 acquired their weapons illegally(i.e. stolen, unregistered, scratched off serial number, etc.). What does that mean? um...that they are criminals, they don't obey the law to begin with. So...how does increasing controls over those who DO follow the law of the land mitigate gun violence? That's what frustrates me with this state smh.

[Torgus]

Originally Posted by SRod321

then there should be reciprocity then or a CCW permit that's honored by EVERY state.

Yes. This would be ideal.

[ezaircon4jc]

Originally Posted by Torgus

This. I only responded to him because I was bored and I personally like the 'way' things are going. He is a world class troll.

Yes, he is. That's why I added him to my blocked list.

[vreihen16]

Originally Posted by SRod321

Funny thing is, in my county anyways(Nassau/suffolk), you need 4 character references just for a sportsman/target permit. Does this mean you need four NEW references, or do you have to re-submit these references for a CCW permit?

Nobody is coming for your current permit. This is all added restrictions on *new* permits, especially in NYC where the SCOTUS has now removed the massive hurdle for getting a permit to carry outside of your residence.

then there should be reciprocity then or a CCW permit that's honored by EVERY state.

Now you're just talking silly! Some states don't even issue/require CCW permits. I'd settle for being able to carry in/through NYC with my NY State unrestricted permit, which currently becomes null and void at the NYC border despite NYC being in NY State and a huge leech on our state taxes.

That's what frustrates me with this state smh.

Exit strategy. I can step into Cabelas in SC and buy a pistol with a SC resident driver's license and the federal background check. No months of your new purchase sitting in gun jail while you wait for the permit amendment to be processed (and probably have to go explain why you need *another* gun to the issuing/approving judge). No Thordsen stock (aka: the featureless ugly stick) on your new AR-15 that they hand out to new state residents as a welcome gift.....





.

[jamesinaz]

Originally Posted by SRod321

Funny thing is, in my county anyways(Nassau/suffolk), you need 4 character references just for a sportsman/target permit. Does this mean you need four NEW references, or do you have to re-submit these references for a CCW permit?
I'll be honest, I'm not 100% opposed to training requirements, I mean for me personally I like more range time(who doesn't?). Also, if I know people are gonna conceal carry in my state/county/etc, they SHOULD be proficient to a degree but if we're gonna make training a requirement, then there should be reciprocity then or a CCW permit that's honored by EVERY state. The social media monitoring could be a slippery slope I think. Let's be real, the MAJORITY of the gun violence and crimes involving firearms are perpetrated by individuals who #1 don't have a permit and #2 acquired their weapons illegally(i.e. stolen, unregistered, scratched off serial number, etc.). What does that mean? um...that they are criminals, they don't obey the law to begin with. So...how does increasing controls over those who DO follow the law of the land mitigate gun violence? That's what frustrates me with this state smh.

I do have a problem with training requirements. Either it's a right or it isn't. People don't have to be trained in debate or opine their thoughts. Or prove they even have a clue who the candidates running are or what they stand for in order to vote. Even the stupid are allowed to vote and express their political views as is proven every day on the internet. A right is a right and can not be attached to arbitrary limitations.

Having said that I wholeheartedly wish every gun owned learned gun safety and was proficient with their firearms. I have seen unsafe handling at ranges and it concerns me. And it breaks my heart whenever I hear of a child or innocent killed by accident.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by jamesinaz

I do have a problem with training requirements. Either it's a right or it isn't. People don't have to be trained in debate or opine their thoughts. Or prove they even have a clue who the candidates running are or what they stand for in order to vote. Even the stupid are allowed to vote and express their political views as is proven every day on the internet. A right is a right and can not be attached to arbitrary limitations.

Having said that I wholeheartedly wish every gun owned learned gun safety and was proficient with their firearms. I have seen unsafe handling at ranges and it concerns me. And it breaks my heart whenever I hear of a child or innocent killed by accident.

I agree 100%!!

[Dang3r]

Originally Posted by jamesinaz

I do have a problem with training requirements. Either it's a right or it isn't. People don't have to be trained in debate or opine their thoughts. Or prove they even have a clue who the candidates running are or what they stand for in order to vote. Even the stupid are allowed to vote and express their political views as is proven every day on the internet. A right is a right and can not be attached to arbitrary limitations.

Having said that I wholeheartedly wish every gun owned learned gun safety and was proficient with their firearms. I have seen unsafe handling at ranges and it concerns me. And it breaks my heart whenever I hear of a child or innocent killed by accident.

THIS!

[Mintsopoulos]

Originally Posted by Theruleslawyer

Heads exploding… phrasing.

Without a public good carve out the majority of gun laws are open to challenge now. I can't wait to see what happens to California with all their silly AR restrictions. Illinois might lose the FOID if we are lucky.

Lose the FOID and gain suppressors. Now that would be fantastic!

[Torgus]

Originally Posted by jamesinaz

I do have a problem with training requirements. Either it's a right or it isn't. People don't have to be trained in debate or opine their thoughts. Or prove they even have a clue who the candidates running are or what they stand for in order to vote. Even the stupid are allowed to vote and express their political views as is proven every day on the internet. A right is a right and can not be attached to arbitrary limitations.

Having said that I wholeheartedly wish every gun owned learned gun safety and was proficient with their firearms. I have seen unsafe handling at ranges and it concerns me. And it breaks my heart whenever I hear of a child or innocent killed by accident.

Damn well said.

[Murf the Surf]

RATS!

[jamesinaz]

Originally Posted by Murf the Surf

RATS!

What caliber is that and what is it really used for?

[Torgus]

https://www.wgrz.com/article/news/st...5-fa76510547fa

Wow...no way they can target people with this.

edit:

Hypothetically they can target people who buy X number of rounds. For instance, 1000 rnds of 9mm might seem like a lot to some or not much to others...goto the range once or twice a week that is potentially a small supply. To the Feds it might be a the ammount to trigger a flag/warning of some sort.

edited to clarify my point, it was ambiguous before.

[Theruleslawyer]

Originally Posted by Torgus

https://www.wgrz.com/article/news/st...5-fa76510547fa

Wow...no way they can target people with this. 1000 rnds of 9mm might seem like a lot to some or not much to others...goto the range once or twice a week that is potentially a small supply

1k is not a lot. A couple range trips. I don't like to dip much below this per caliber that way I'm not SOL if the shit ever does hit the fan.

[Torgus]

Originally Posted by Theruleslawyer

1k is not a lot. A couple range trips. I don't like to dip much below this per caliber that way I'm not SOL if the shit ever does hit the fan.

I whole heartedly agree. My concern is they would put arbitrary 'limits' on ammo purchases which would trigger a 'flag' of some sort. If you buy more than X number you get flagged, or X per year etc. 1000 is nothing. But to the state it might be enough to put you on a list. Knowing the state they probably don't care about caliber just total bullets sold.

Why the hell should the state know how much ammo you own or have bought? It is none of their business.

Why do they need to collect this information? It is only for their interest, not they law abiding citizens best interest in mind.

[vreihen16]

Originally Posted by Torgus

1000 is nothing. But to the state it might be enough to put you on a list. Knowing the state they probably don't care about caliber just total bullets sold.

I've carried more than 1,000 rounds out of a sporting goods store with one hand. Not that I would ever run bulk ammo, but a bucket of bulk .22 LR for plinking holds more than 1,000 rounds...and also comes with a carrying handle.....

[jamesinaz]

Originally Posted by Torgus

https://www.wgrz.com/article/news/st...5-fa76510547fa

Wow...no way they can target people with this. 1000 rnds of 9mm might seem like a lot to some or not much to others...goto the range once or twice a week that is potentially a small supply

OK I'm practically numb from an after golf nap and old age . I can't find any reference to 1000 rounds as in limit or anything. Help an old guy out

What did they do?

[chowser51]

lol. I ordered 4k rounds of 357sig one day and couldn't wait. then went to a local gunstore and bought out their stock, it was only 2100 rounds. no gov't visit yet. that was two weeks ago.

[Torgus]

https://www.wgrz.com/article/news/st...5-fa76510547fa

"New York is now requiring him under the new law to record information about any ammo purchases. That includes not just the customer's name, address, date of birth, and type and quantity of ammunition, but also their occupation." <--You have to give them your diver's license. They track every bullet you buy.


"come next September of 2023 the state, once it actually pays for a workable database system, will start requiring a background check for people purchasing ammunition."

Imagine getting a HOLD on the ammo you are trying to buy to hunt with that weekend. Or you need the ammo to sight in your new scope you bought.


"starting in December under state business law, gun dealers will have to keep their ammunition for sale in locked display cabinets."




It feels like to me this is NY getting back at lawful gun owners after VERY publicly losing: New York State Rifle & Pistol Association, Inc. v. Bruen <--which again could affect MANY other states.




My comment about 1k rounds is you know they will have alarms/alerts in place based on quantity purchased. If they did not why take down so much information EVERY time you buy ammo. That is just how the state/fed is. They want to know who is buying 10k rounds of X. Wouldn't want you to start arming your own militia. At some point you bought too much ammo in a certain time period you will get flagged. Mark my words. They are not recording all this information for your health. It is so they have an idea of how much ammo and of what caliber weapons that your own. Cops come to you house. They pull you up on their computer before knocking on the door(or knocking it down) Well we know he bought: shotguns shells, 9mm, 556, 308, etc. so we have a good idea of all the firearms he potentially might own.

They do not know what firearms you have purchased. But they know what ammo.




Is ammo part of the right to bear arms? I would say 100%. Can't do much with a gun and no ammo. But has SCOTUS said it yet? I see this is all because they know they can't take your guns, but they can make you buying ammo a PITA. I am amazed there is no bullet tax to pay for victims of gun related crimes/death. That way they could tax each 9mm bullet for $10. Can't get you to not own weapons but they can make it so prohibitively expensive that the average person can't afford it.

[Theruleslawyer]

Tracking is always a precursor to confiscation at best. The ATF knocking down your door and killing your dog then spending time in prison on a dubious charge on the other.