[Muad Dib]

I mostly enjoy my X1 for 7-8 months now, no real issues. But one thing I hate about it are the brakes. Didn't realise this when buying it, but apparently models with engines 18d/18i or smaller have smaller brakes - 307mm front and 280mm back (back is solid, not vented). From 20d/20i up you get 330mm front, and 300mm back, also vented.

Strange choice as 18d xDrive would be heavier then 20d sDrive for example. I guess this is designed by some accountants and not engineers. I could understand if with 1.5 engines you get smaller brakes, but 18/20/25 are essentially same from size / weight perspective.

Anyway, they feel vague and inadequate, I really don't have much confidence in them, and I wonder if stopping distance will be short enough when I need it to be.
I was thinking as my discs and pads need replacing, perhaps there is a chance to go one size up and get the 330/300 mm upgrade. Of course that would mean new calipers as well I imagine, perhaps backing plates etc.

Is this feasible, has anyone done something like this? Are all bolts for calipers same, anything else needed etc. Do you think it's good idea, or should I just try to get bit grippier discs and pads for replacement?

[808X1]

Originally Posted by Muad Dib

I mostly enjoy my X1 for 7-8 months now, no real issues. But one thing I hate about it are the brakes. Didn't realise this when buying it, but apparently models with engines 18d/18i or smaller have smaller brakes - 307mm front and 280mm back (back is solid, not vented). From 20d/20i up you get 330mm front, and 300mm back, also vented.

Strange choice as 18d xDrive would be heavier then 20d sDrive for example. I guess this is designed by some accountants and not engineers. I could understand if with 1.5 engines you get smaller brakes, but 18/20/25 are essentially same from size / weight perspective.

Anyway, they feel vague and inadequate, I really don't have much confidence in them, and I wonder if stopping distance will be short enough when I need it to be.
I was thinking as my discs and pads need replacing, perhaps there is a chance to go one size up and get the 330/300 mm upgrade. Of course that would mean new calipers as well I imagine, perhaps backing plates etc.

Is this feasible, has anyone done something like this? Are all bolts for calipers same, anything else needed etc. Do you think it's good idea, or should I just try to get bit grippier discs and pads for replacement?

You can consider doing the Mini JCW brake it for the F56&57. I believe a member here has done it . Look up the JCW front brake kit thread.

[Muad Dib]

Originally Posted by 808X1

You can consider doing the Mini JCW brake it for the F56&57. I believe a member here has done it . Look up the JCW front brake kit thread.

Thanks. I found that post, that looks like much better setup. I imagine it's quite pricey like anything with M badge and apparently it would not fit mine 18" rims.
I'm thinking more along the lines of getting larger discs from 20/25d. 330/300mm from 307/280mm That should be straight bolt on I would hope... Just wondering if anyone has done something like that, what exactly parts are needed etc.

[808X1]

Have you also considered just upgrading the pads and SS lines and see if those are all that is needed to improve brake feel and stopping power? BTW, the JCW kit for both front and back is $1600, IIRC

[ZZZZ]

There are three upgrade paths for you :

1. The 2.8i brakes
2. The X2 M brakes
3. The Mini Countryman JCW brakes

I have the xDrive28i MSport and while the brakes are fairly strong, I do find them grabby and non-linear. Either not braking enough or too much.

Front brakes are of course most important. Generally speaking, fronts stop the car, rears keep the vehicle balanced to prevent nose dive / weight from pushing to the front.

[ttimbo]

Originally Posted by 808X1

Have you also considered just upgrading the pads and SS lines and see if those are all that is needed to improve brake feel and stopping power? BTW, the JCW kit for both front and back is $1600, IIRC

That's where I would start: pad, lines and fluid upgrades can make a massive difference, and are much cheaper

[Muad Dib]

Originally Posted by ttimbo

That's where I would start: pad, lines and fluid upgrades can make a massive difference, and are much cheaper

Thanks, I guess that's rational thing to do. I'm not aggressive driver and don't really torture the brakes, I just hate feeling of no confidence in brakes.

I guess with grippier pads and possibly ss hoses it should feel a bit more direct. At the end of the day braking distance depends mostly on tyres and surface, once you press hard enough. But I really shouldn't be guessing how hard I need to apply brake for expected reaction.
I imagine this is partly to X1 being taller then my previous cars and you don't get that direct feedback from the tyres.

[Muad Dib]

Originally Posted by ZZZZ

There are three upgrade paths for you :

1. The 2.8i brakes
2. The X2 M brakes
3. The Mini Countryman JCW brakes

I have the xDrive28i MSport and while the brakes are fairly strong, I do find them grabby and non-linear. Either not braking enough or too much.

Front brakes are of course most important. Generally speaking, fronts stop the car, rears keep the vehicle balanced to prevent nose dive / weight from pushing to the front.

Thanks,

Yes, my default thinking get little bigger standard brakes. But seems like you don't get that progressive feel and control as well. Not sure why that is, as mentioned in other post, perhaps the nature of taller car, maybe suspension is not planted enough, but seems like something is not quite right. Maybe comfort and practicality require compromise in performance...

[ttimbo]

Originally Posted by Muad Dib

Thanks, I guess that's rational thing to do. I'm not aggressive driver and don't really torture the brakes, I just hate feeling of no confidence in brakes.

I guess with grippier pads and possibly ss hoses it should feel a bit more direct. At the end of the day braking distance depends mostly on tyres and surface, once you press hard enough. But I really shouldn't be guessing how hard I need to apply brake for expected reaction.
I imagine this is partly to X1 being taller then my previous cars and you don't get that direct feedback from the tyres.

In case you haven't done so, find a wide deserted piece of road, and try a full emergency brake manouevre — I mean one that where you well and truly feel the ABS kick in. The car should not lock up, but remain fully controllable and steerable. If it isn't, there may be other issues with your braking system.

Personally, I find our X1's brakes to be very progressive — not the best I've used, but I have confidence in them. Doing a "crash" stop (as above) ought to give you that sense of confidence if everything is OK

[ZZZZ]

Originally Posted by Muad Dib

Thanks,

Yes, my default thinking get little bigger standard brakes. But seems like you don't get that progressive feel and control as well. Not sure why that is, as mentioned in other post, perhaps the nature of taller car, maybe suspension is not planted enough, but seems like something is not quite right. Maybe comfort and practicality require compromise in performance...

I firmly believe the non progressive issue isn't isolated to the X1 but just newer BMW's in general. It's like the modern electric steering in these cars. Newer BMW brakes are regenerative to charge the car's battery. Does this to improve mpg by not engaging the alternator clutch as often, but also means when the car decides to use brakes to regen the braking force changes slightly. They're also electro hydraulic opposed to just hydraulic. The car determines if you're panic braking and will apply additional brake boost (beyond your intended amount). The car also uses the wiper control (or rain sensing wipers) and speed to apply the brakes very gently in the rain every so often. Just to wipe the water off the rotors but not enough to actually stop the vehicle. This is also how the brake cruise control works and hill decent control is able to function. Computer controlled brakes.

My point is. These newer BMW's have a computer layer and electronics in the mix that change the behaviour of the brakes depending on the situation. You won't get linear progressive actuation like purely hydraulic brakes of old. I do notice putting the car in sport mode dials back the electronic nannies (I.e. No more brake regen), but it's still not perfectly linear.

Now increasing your brakes and pad surface area will of course improve your stopping power, reduce brake fade, and in theory lengthen time between brake and rotor changes, but I don't think it'll help improve the feel or how linear the actuation of the brakes are. All depends on what your goals are.

On a side note, I have the msport which also includes the variable ratio sport steering. So in addition to brakes that are non linear, my steering is also non linear. Turn less at low speeds but requires more turns lock to lock at high speeds. I'm always judging my turns and waiting to see how the car reacts before turning more. I'm seriously considering (after 2 weeks of ownership) swapping the rack for the MINI Countryman 14:1 static rack.

X1 is a sensible vehicle. But a driver's car it is not. (even as an msport with the optional 19's)

Zzzz

[Muad Dib]

Originally Posted by ttimbo

In case you haven't done so, find a wide deserted piece of road, and try a full emergency brake manouevre — I mean one that where you well and truly feel the ABS kick in. The car should not lock up, but remain fully controllable and steerable. If it isn't, there may be other issues with your braking system.

Personally, I find our X1's brakes to be very progressive — not the best I've used, but I have confidence in them. Doing a "crash" stop (as above) ought to give you that sense of confidence if everything is OK

Thanks, yes, didn't really need panic stop, but will see if I find the quite place to give them a proper test, perhaps will know better what to expect.

[Muad Dib]

Originally Posted by ZZZZ

I firmly believe the non progressive issue isn't isolated to the X1 but just newer BMW's in general. It's like the modern electric steering in these cars. Newer BMW brakes are regenerative to charge the car's battery. Does this to improve mpg by not engaging the alternator clutch as often, but also means when the car decides to use brakes to regen the braking force changes slightly. They're also electro hydraulic opposed to just hydraulic. The car determines if you're panic braking and will apply additional brake boost (beyond your intended amount). The car also uses the wiper control (or rain sensing wipers) and speed to apply the brakes very gently in the rain every so often. Just to wipe the water off the rotors but not enough to actually stop the vehicle. This is also how the brake cruise control works and hill decent control is able to function. Computer controlled brakes.

My point is. These newer BMW's have a computer layer and electronics in the mix that change the behaviour of the brakes depending on the situation. You won't get linear progressive actuation like purely hydraulic brakes of old. I do notice putting the car in sport mode dials back the electronic nannies (I.e. No more brake regen), but it's still not perfectly linear.

Now increasing your brakes and pad surface area will of course improve your stopping power, reduce brake fade, and in theory lengthen time between brake and rotor changes, but I don't think it'll help improve the feel or how linear the actuation of the brakes are. All depends on what your goals are.

On a side note, I have the msport which also includes the variable ratio sport steering. So in addition to brakes that are non linear, my steering is also non linear. Turn less at low speeds but requires more turns lock to lock at high speeds. I'm always judging my turns and waiting to see how the car reacts before turning more. I'm seriously considering (after 2 weeks of ownership) swapping the rack for the MINI Countryman 14:1 static rack.

X1 is a sensible vehicle. But a driver's car it is not. (even as an msport with the optional 19's)

Zzzz

Wow, that's really insightful. When you say it like that it suddenly makes sense. I think it fit's in my perception, like there is something between me pressing a brake and the reaction at the wheels. Well I guess there is computer and the regen system...
Perhaps this is intended behavior, but I just need to know what to expect.
I don't really think family crossover can ever be a driver's car, and I don't need it to be, just wanted a bit more control and predictability when stopping.
I imagine riding a motorbike has skewed my expectations somewhat, there you get real feel and instant reaction. Then again I have bigger rotors and 4-pot calipers on 200kg motorbike compared to the 1500kg X1. On the other hand it has very similar mpg as the car, so I guess you must compromise somewhere.
Thanks for this, really changed my perception on how brakes work on the modern car like BMW.

[frmodule3r]

Originally Posted by ZZZZ

There are three upgrade paths for you :

1. The 2.8i brakes
2. The X2 M brakes
3. The Mini Countryman JCW brakes

I have the xDrive28i MSport and while the brakes are fairly strong, I do find them grabby and non-linear. Either not braking enough or too much.

Front brakes are of course most important. Generally speaking, fronts stop the car, rears keep the vehicle balanced to prevent nose dive / weight from pushing to the front.

does it work on a 2017 x1 m sport?

[allwheelsdriven]

All I have to do to get confidence back in the brakes is go drive my gf's Rav4