F32 M3 vs. Audi Quattro

[JonnyM3]

These two cars should be out around the same time. Would anybody cross shop them? Considering how disappointed I am in the route the M divisions is going w/ the new generation M3 I know I'll be very interested in having this Audi, granted they fix the rear end a little bit.
http://www.worldcarfans.com/11009292...in-paris-video

[Brosef]

Not a bad looking car, although the front end looks a little too Lexus/fast-and-furious for my taste. It will have the typical Audi feel to it though since it's AWD.

I think too many people have written off the next M3 on pure speculation. Call it blind faith if you must, but I am confident that the next M3 will continue it's legacy as the clear track performance leader of its class.

[HBspeed]

If the Sport Quattro comes in at 2866 lbs. and 408 hp. like the press release states, it is going to crush the F32 M3 which is likely to be around 3600-3700 lbs and 450 hp.

[swamp2]

Audi achieving a 2800-2900lb car based on the S5 chassis seems incredibly unlikely. Amazing power to weight if they can pull it off and it will be really fast.

[JonnyM3]

^^^^
http://green.autoblog.com/2009/10/01...-a5-prototype/

They definitely are capable of reducing weight, especially if they really want to finally make an M3 beater

[MMMorish]

Originally Posted by swamp2

Audi achieving a 2800-2900lb car based on the S5 chassis seems incredibly unlikely. Amazing power to weight if they can pull it off and it will be really fast.

I agree.

[swamp2]

Originally Posted by AudiS5

^^^^
http://green.autoblog.com/2009/10/01...-a5-prototype/

They definitely are capable of reducing weight, especially if they really want to finally make an M3 beater

I saw the article. Do you realize how many features, amenities and aesthetics things would have to be sacrificed to have an S5 chassis PRODUCTION vehicle weigh in at those figures? Sure, anyone can do this, with a RACE CAR. You realize the M3 GT ALMS race car weighs in at right about 2800 lb, right? See here. If you think Audi can build a true production/consumer luxury sport sedan at this same weight with all of the safety and luxury typical of either a BMW or Audi car you are sorely mistaken. That does leave me confused though - there are only 3 options here

1. Typo
2. The car is simply not anything like a regular production car in terms of feature, amenities, safety, aesthetics, etc.
3. The car is using a huge dose of composites and/or exotic materials including the chassis and that will make the price multiples of the current M3 or S5.

[quiksi]

I thought the Sport Quattro was going to be a very limited-run car that would cost north of $100k? If so the only M3 it's going to be "competing" with would be a GTS-type model. It will also probably have the next AMG C Black Series to face..

[JonnyM3]

Keep in mind this is a smaller car than an A5 so there is weight to be saved. Also, if it is North of 100k, they better pack a bit more power to justify that over the R8...even if it is marginally quicker.

[swamp2]

Originally Posted by AudiS5

Keep in mind this is a smaller car than an A5 so there is weight to be saved. Also, if it is North of 100k, they better pack a bit more power to justify that over the R8...even if it is marginally quicker.

The article says it is based on the RS5 chassis. Smaller than an A5 or not it doesn't really matter. The RS5 is 3800 lbs (rounded). That is a 1000 lb savings. I do not think they can achieve this for $100k. Well at least not achieve it and have the car make any profit. That leaves another option. It could be a halo car that will cost more to produce than they sell it for.

Do you reject these four possibilities I have stated? If so I would like to hear your logical explanation.

[JonnyM3]

Why does it seem you're getting offended. I never once stated that Audi can build a car that is 2800lbs, but I do think they can make this thing around 3200-3300 and still retain most amenities. I said they're capable of reducing weight, but do I think they can make this this thing 2800 pounds? No... Obviously time will tell with this car, but its definitely something I'm going to be following if the new M3 disappoints.

[graider]

it's ugly man.

[scheherazade]

Originally Posted by AudiS5

These two cars should be out around the same time. Would anybody cross shop them?...

Since you have to ask, I believe that makes the answer 'yes'.
(Not being facetious)

I cross shopped an evo X, STI, and a 335. So did a few other people.
To some people it's not even a comparison.

I know a girl that cross shopped a yaris, legacy, murano and forester.
Large spread in price and form factor.

I would be surprised if the M and Quattro were not cross-shopped.

Originally Posted by swamp2

I saw the article. Do you realize how many features, amenities and aesthetics things would have to be sacrificed to have an S5 chassis PRODUCTION vehicle weigh in at those figures? Sure, anyone can do this, with a RACE CAR. You realize the M3 GT ALMS race car weighs in at right about 2800 lb, right? See here. If you think Audi can build a true production/consumer luxury sport sedan at this same weight with all of the safety and luxury typical of either a BMW or Audi car you are sorely mistaken. That does leave me confused though - there are only 3 options here

1. Typo
2. The car is simply not anything like a regular production car in terms of feature, amenities, safety, aesthetics, etc.
3. The car is using a huge dose of composites and/or exotic materials including the chassis and that will make the price multiples of the current M3 or S5.

The article mentions that a lot has been cut out of the car, and it's rather spartan.

I suspect #2 on your list helps with the weight.

-scheherazade

[008]

http://www.automobilemag.com/auto_sh...ept/index.html

Loosely based on the RS5, the new Quattro sits on a wheelbase that has been cut by 5.9 inches. The rear overhang was shortened by 7.9 inches, and the roofline was lowered by 1.6 inches. Together, these reductions add up to a much tighter package and more muscular proportions. To bring the weight down to 2900 pounds (roughly the same level as the 1984 Sport Quattro), Audi replaced the steel body of the production RS5 with a custom aluminum spaceframe architecture clad with carbon fiber panels. A further cut in calories was achieved by substituting the V-8 and the dual-clutch transmission with a turbocharged five-cylinder and a manual six-speed gearbox.

[swamp2]

Originally Posted by AudiS5

Why does it seem you're getting offended. I never once stated that Audi can build a car that is 2800lbs, but I do think they can make this thing around 3200-3300 and still retain most amenities. I said they're capable of reducing weight, but do I think they can make this this thing 2800 pounds? No... Obviously time will tell with this car, but its definitely something I'm going to be following if the new M3 disappoints.

Absolutely no offense. I'm just appealing to logic. Many on this thread seem all excited for a regular production Audi that weighs sub 3000 lbs. The numbers you give above are much more reasonable for a true production car. But even at those weights the volumes are likely to be small, the car still quite spartan and the price really high.

[BMW269]

The Audi is so light, so powerful and has such grip, 0-100 kpm/h in the same time as R8 V10. This Audi is at last going to crash the M3 and put it tore it to pieces, and this will I hope, at last wake up BMW M, and they will think about their mistakes. Or maybe not and they will completely stop building M3's.

[swamp2]

Originally Posted by Levi

The Audi is so light, so powerful and has such grip, 0-100 kpm/h in the same time as R8 V10. This Audi is at last going to crash the M3 and put it tore it to pieces, and this will I hope, at last wake up BMW M, and they will think about their mistakes. Or maybe not and they will completely stop building M3's.

Come on you are not serious. This won't be anywhere near an M3 competitor because it will be at least 2 times the price. It's simply a halo / concept car...



I still like your signature picture

[graider]

Originally Posted by swamp2

Come on you are not serious. This won't be anywhere near an M3 competitor because it will be at least 2 times the price. It's simply a halo / concept car...



I still like your signature picture

i think he was joking.

[swamp2]

Originally Posted by graider

i think he was joking.

Ha I considered that possibility but if you look at his signature block it made me not so sure. How about it Levi - sarcasm or not?

[BMW269]

No, it is true the Quattro will be faster than M3 F32. Even the TT-RS is nearly as fast. Now the Quattro is only a concept, and we do not know how will it come to production. This could maybe even be the coming Audi R4 or R5, and it would be placed above TT, and maybe priced slightly under R8 V8.

[JonnyM3]

Keep in mind, unless BMW deviates from current trends the newer M3 will probably be starting range of 62+ meaning loaded you're looking at quite an expensive car.

I really doubt that Audi would price this thing over 100k, who the fuck would buy it?

[Salespunk]

The Quattro will not be built unless they water it down significantly. I would love to see it since I am an Audi fan, but it is not going to happen.