[Chihuahua]

Originally Posted by zinner

. I am sad to see BMW move away from ICE cause it will mean the end of motorsports and they are a huge player with BMW CCA club racing and DE's.

That'll still be going on for many years to come.

[FrozenGT]

New class loooks better G generation. Looking forward to it.

[tturedraider]

Originally Posted by Travis

“Look at my eight horse carraiage. Aren’t they beautiful? Why would anybody buy this ugly and slow thing called ‘car’?”

The difference is the free market of consumers made the decision to choose cars over horses. The change wasn’t imposed on the people by the government.

[Rat_House]

Originally Posted by Travis

On the contrary I had the chance to pick i5 or 530i and I chose EV with no regret. Don’t say the market is not there, that is ignorance. Look at how many Tesla have been sold last year.

Yet Ford and GM have the complete opposite POV, I’m sure you know more than they do though

[JJacksonIII]

Originally Posted by tturedraider

The difference is the free market of consumers made the decision to choose cars over horses. The change wasn’t imposed on the people by the government.

Not imposed on the people, but if the govenment didn't spend trillions supsidizing oil companies, building expressways, bridges and roads, among many other things, then most of us would still be traveling on horseback.

[Travis]

Originally Posted by Rat_House

Yet Ford and GM have the complete opposite POV, I’m sure you know more than they do though

To be honest, they can't sell their EVs because theirs are not competitive, not attractive, and cost too much for various reasons.
And they are using this POV as an excuse to bargain for more government incentive.

[Rat_House]

Originally Posted by Travis

To be honest, they can't sell their EVs because theirs are not competitive, not attractive, and cost too much for various reasons.
And they are using this POV as an excuse to bargain for more government incentive.

Yeah there probably is some truth to that, especially the second part. But one could argue the first part is true across all EVs

[tturedraider]

Originally Posted by Cortexiphan

It's not something to agree or disagree on.
It's happening, it will happen.

Also, mining cobalt and lithium is bad for environment, but not nearly as bad as hundreds of millions of cars constantly putting exhaust gas in the air. Not even a percent of that. If you don't believe me, get in a garage, close the door, and turn on your engine. It's really not that great. Or, you can just pickup an elementary school science textbook to learn about greenhouse effect.

And 'no one wants these cars'? Seriously? Seems like you're getting your science & market news from political outlets.

I won’t argue with you that it may “really not be that great.” But, the fact is it’s virtually impossible to kill yourself anymore by locking yourself in the garage with your car motor running, because they no longer put out enough carbon monoxide to get the job done. It’s not impossible, but you’ll actually die from lack of oxygen being replaced by carbon dioxide and it will take A LOT LONGER. Today’s catalytic converters convert 99% of carbon monoxide into harmless-to-the-environment carbon dioxide.

[tturedraider]

Originally Posted by FrozenGT

New class loooks better G generation. Looking forward to it.

[tturedraider]

Originally Posted by JJacksonIII

Not imposed on the people, but if the govenment didn't spend trillions supsidizing oil companies, building expressways, bridges and roads, among many other things, then most of us would still be traveling on horseback.

And those things happened because the free market was choosing cars and creating the need/demand for the infrastructure to support the free choices consumers/taxpayers were making.

[TractionControlDelete]

We’ll see

[JJacksonIII]

Originally Posted by tturedraider

And those things happened because the free market was choosing cars and creating the need/demand for the infrastructure to support the free choices consumers/taxpayers were making.

Yikes. That's scary inaccurate.

[tturedraider]

Originally Posted by JJacksonIII

Yikes. That's scary inaccurate.

Really? Post your evidence. You think the government started building the infrastructure because they wanted to encourage people to adopt the car?

[logicators]

Originally Posted by Travis

“Look at my eight horse carraiage. Aren’t they beautiful? Why would anybody buy this ugly and slow thing called ‘car’?”

Flawed analogy. Cars represented a paradigm shift in transportation and made things possible that were unthinkable in the past (like the great American coast to coast road trip). EVs are just another way to power cars. They don’t make transportation more convinient, or cheap, not for now anyway. They actually require a compromise. You need to plan your trips around the available infrastructure. They will see mass adoption when 1) charging stations are as common as gas stations, 2) charging times are comparable to or better than filling gas in a car and 3) their acquisition and maintenance costs, and resale prices are comparable to or better than their ICE counterparts.

[LogicalApex]

Very cool to see BMW making progress.

Irrespective of laws mandating EVs they needed to move quickly. China is exporting vehicles at such high volume that they are now the world's #1 exporter of vehicles globally. And they are heavily focused on EVs.

[zinner]

Originally Posted by Krids1229

How does this have anything to do with BEV?

spend some time listening to the discussion of ppl with decades of auto industry experience discussing what it has todo with battery electric vehicles. might learn something

[stefan]

Interesting that Toyota will be focusing exclusively on hybrids, Ford and GM are writing to Biden asking to relax the EV push, but BMW is going all in.

Personally the car itself doesn't bother me, it's that 90% of locations on earth aren't equipped to manage their charging requirements. And the value of the car will be less than the cost of a battery replacement at ~150,000 as well. That isn't remotely being addressed.

[Cortexiphan]

Originally Posted by Rat_House

Yet Ford and GM have the complete opposite POV, I’m sure you know more than they do though

Mach E is $10K more than Tesla Model Y.
Yeah, other reasons.

[ChrisM4]

Originally Posted by sammyj

The EPA is heavily restricting the sale of ICEs past 2032, and CA is banning the sale of a new ICE outright in 2035. Current demand is almost irrelevant at this point, given the influence that the US and Cali markets have overall on vehicle specifications.

We can expect to see a rapid maturing of this market in the next few years, with regards to battery efficiency/ range, charging infrastructure, and something that isn’t talked about much - used EV sales. That last bit - we still have a long way to go in terms of battery recycling, battery health verification (buying a used EV, a buyer would rightfully want to know the condition of the battery), and battery refurbishment/replacement.

I think we will also see an embrace from performance oriented carmakers, and some interesting innovations in “performance dynamics” for EVs.

Governments change and these tentative dates will 100% be pushed out even if they don’t have a change in government.

Cali can’t even support their existing power needs and have rolling brownouts frequently. Investment in upgrading the grid and charging infrastructure will take easily 15-20 years across NA.

Also there’s no harmonized regulations around battery recycling and disposal. They literally don’t exist. This is going to be a major problem.

ICE will be safe for a while and billions of dollars will be written down by the automakers. Hybrids are the only viable technology right now to scale at the numbers needed. Toyota’s CEO had it right.

[Cortexiphan]

Originally Posted by tturedraider

And those things happened because the free market was choosing cars and creating the need/demand for the infrastructure to support the free choices consumers/taxpayers were making.

But this change needs to be imposed by the government.
Educating you is much harder than putting out some new regulations. Also, government needs to protect me and my son and future generations from catastrophe. That's why the government exists.

Humans aren't that smart. When government doesn't force people to put on seatbelts, they don't wear them and die in the first 20mph accident they get into. When it doesn't force people to stop buying guns, they do and kill random people. When it doesn't force them to dump all their chemical waste into rivers, they do and kill animals and poison people. When it doesn't force them to stop smoking, they do and kill themselves. You got the idea. Or maybe not. Probably not - and that's why you need to be forced.
That's why we humans choose a government and give them the right to regulate. That's called the Social Contract.

EVs won't solve climate change by themselves. But it's a part of it. If you're obese, you wouldn't say "I can eat this large pizza by myself. Not eating this won't put me in shape anyway, so f/ck it".

[tturedraider]

Originally Posted by Cortexiphan

But this change needs to be imposed by the government.
Educating you is much harder than putting out some new regulations. Also, government needs to protect me and my son and future generations from catastrophe. That's why the government exists.

Humans aren't that smart. When government doesn't force people to put on seatbelts, they don't wear them and die in the first 20mph accident they get into. When it doesn't force people to stop buying guns, they do and kill random people. When it doesn't force them to dump all their chemical waste into rivers, they do and kill animals and poison people. When it doesn't force them to stop smoking, they do and kill themselves. You got the idea. Or maybe not. Probably not - and that's why you need to be forced.
That's why we humans choose a government and give them the right to regulate. That's called the Social Contract.

EVs won't solve climate change by themselves. But it's a part of it. If you're obese, you wouldn't say "I can eat this large pizza by myself. Not eating this won't put me in shape anyway, so f/ck it".

You do realize humans are running the government, right? Interesting dichotomy you state.


Well, I could address each of these items, but I’m not going to waste my time, because it wouldn’t make any difference to you or to me. We obviously view the world in polar opposite ways and neither of us is going to change our minds. I’ll just say this. My view on the majority of the things you mentioned is very different than you think it is.

[Krids1229]

Originally Posted by zinner

spend some time listening to the discussion of ppl with decades of auto industry experience discussing what it has todo with battery electric vehicles. might learn something

Whoa...
Better than listening to some chucklehead online, amiright?!