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WestRace · 02-14-2019, 01:37 PM

I think there should be a distinction from "special and unique" vs. "better and faster". Those who argue that the older M's are more special and there are those who argue the new M's are better "in every way". Both are correct.

I remember when the E46 M CSL and Z4M came out, there were nothing like them at the time which means they are unique, but when you drive them, there is something special about them. It's just not the rarity, it's in the way they drive as well. Even today, you can't find anything that feels like the E46 M3 (that is unless you have a 911). I've had a E90 M3 for about a year and although it's better any every way vs. the E46 M3, for some reasons it didn't feel special for me so I ended up selling it. I haven't driven the new F80 M3/4 but from what I've heard, they are even more isolated vs. the E90X M3. So I asked myself why? What is "special"? Why is one sport car more special vs. another car?

Someone once said that "I can't define what's "profanity" is, but I know it when I hear it". Maybe it's the same for how we feel when a car feels "special". You know it when you drive it. Maybe it's the connection between the driver and the car mechanical underpinnings. Of course it's more than that since I have driven the Nissan Z350 and Infinity G35 and those cars actually have some good feels but they are fairly crude and unsophisticated and I wouldn't call them "special". So in order for a car to be special, you need some sophistication as well.

For me, from an engineering and manufacturing point of view, it's a lot harder and more expensive to make a car "special". It's a lot easier to make a car feel "isolated" to hide the weakness of its mechanical make up. That's why cars like 911, E46 M, and so are are expensive to make because you need to have very tight manufacturing process to pull it off. If you don't you may end up with cars with good mechanical connections but they'd be crude like the Z350 or the Mustang or Camaro of old.

I have no doubt that the new F80 M is a good car but maybe I am just being prejudiced but something about them that is a bit derivative. Well maybe it's just me. And it doesn't help that there are a lot more alternatives nowaday. If you don't like the M3/M4, I think there are other cars that are just equally good. Interestingly, if you want the feel of the old M cars, you can buy a new Mustang, or Camaro, or Cadillac ATS-V or CTS-V, or Corvette, although I still don't thing American cars have as sophisticated as the German cars. New BMW M cars are fast but I think they lack a bit of personalities. Maybe that's what people are complaining.

02-14-2019, 01:37 PM	#56
WestRace Major 730 Rep 1,087 Posts Drives: E46 M3, E90 M3 Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Los Angels, Ca. iTrader: (0)	I think there should be a distinction from "special and unique" vs. "better and faster". Those who argue that the older M's are more special and there are those who argue the new M's are better "in every way". Both are correct. I remember when the E46 M CSL and Z4M came out, there were nothing like them at the time which means they are unique, but when you drive them, there is something special about them. It's just not the rarity, it's in the way they drive as well. Even today, you can't find anything that feels like the E46 M3 (that is unless you have a 911). I've had a E90 M3 for about a year and although it's better any every way vs. the E46 M3, for some reasons it didn't feel special for me so I ended up selling it. I haven't driven the new F80 M3/4 but from what I've heard, they are even more isolated vs. the E90X M3. So I asked myself why? What is "special"? Why is one sport car more special vs. another car? Someone once said that "I can't define what's "profanity" is, but I know it when I hear it". Maybe it's the same for how we feel when a car feels "special". You know it when you drive it. Maybe it's the connection between the driver and the car mechanical underpinnings. Of course it's more than that since I have driven the Nissan Z350 and Infinity G35 and those cars actually have some good feels but they are fairly crude and unsophisticated and I wouldn't call them "special". So in order for a car to be special, you need some sophistication as well. For me, from an engineering and manufacturing point of view, it's a lot harder and more expensive to make a car "special". It's a lot easier to make a car feel "isolated" to hide the weakness of its mechanical make up. That's why cars like 911, E46 M, and so are are expensive to make because you need to have very tight manufacturing process to pull it off. If you don't you may end up with cars with good mechanical connections but they'd be crude like the Z350 or the Mustang or Camaro of old. I have no doubt that the new F80 M is a good car but maybe I am just being prejudiced but something about them that is a bit derivative. Well maybe it's just me. And it doesn't help that there are a lot more alternatives nowaday. If you don't like the M3/M4, I think there are other cars that are just equally good. Interestingly, if you want the feel of the old M cars, you can buy a new Mustang, or Camaro, or Cadillac ATS-V or CTS-V, or Corvette, although I still don't thing American cars have as sophisticated as the German cars. New BMW M cars are fast but I think they lack a bit of personalities. Maybe that's what people are complaining.
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