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BMW X1 (F48) and X2 (F39) Forums General BMW X2 Forum (F39) 2018 BMW X2 Priced From $38,400. Here is the Price and Order Guide

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      12-21-2017, 05:53 PM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jono2112 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by goj View Post
Give me a real color and an M40i trim and you have an amazing "entry-level" high performance SAV
How does the inline six fit a front wheel drive platform?
Keep reading the comments
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      12-21-2017, 05:54 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goj View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jono2112 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by goj View Post
Give me a real color and an M40i trim and you have an amazing "entry-level" high performance SAV
How does the inline six fit a front wheel drive platform?
Keep reading the comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by goj View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jono2112 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by goj View Post
Give me a real color and an M40i trim and you have an amazing "entry-level" high performance SAV
How does the inline six fit a front wheel drive platform?
Keep reading the comments
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      12-21-2017, 06:04 PM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goj View Post
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Originally Posted by MightyMouseTech View Post
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Originally Posted by goj View Post
If you continue reading you'd see I meant the tuned up b48 which I guess will be the new 35i
Sorry, missed that post.

But that will be a pretty maxed out 4 pot.
Yea it's about time too. Audi and MB already have 300+ hp 2 liter turbos.

Heck the G20 330i should have 300hp or close to it with the m340i reportedly making 380
Quote:
Originally Posted by goj View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jono2112 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by goj View Post
Give me a real color and an M40i trim and you have an amazing "entry-level" high performance SAV
How does the inline six fit a front wheel drive platform?
Keep reading the comments
Yes I guess you can fit a 400hp four cylinder in, but it's not a silky smooth inline six! We'd have to see how it comes together as a package. Smushed suv/cuv, awd, 300+hp, a couple dozen ///M badges...st least it will likely kick the GLAs/A45s butt!
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      12-21-2017, 08:07 PM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adc View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by m34m View Post
BMW's transformation to a consumer friendly brand for the masses is complete! This includes the dilution and proliferation of the once meaningful M brand. Add in the fact this company no longer has any viability, credibility or meaningful presence in the world of racing and I'd call these guys done from the enthusiast perspective. Finished.

P.S. keep putting slush boxes in M cars fellas that's the ticket! Make sure they get bigger and heavier too.
You do know that both the new M5 and F80 M3 are lighter than their predecessors, do you?

Itís a new world buddy. Porsche, Bentley, Rolls Royce, Lamborghini and soon Ferrari had to build freakin SUVs to survive. Things change, and you either change with it or disappear.

Sheesh, are you guys even adults here?
How does those brands making luxury performance SUVs compares to making 4-cyl, AWD, minivan crossovers?
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      12-21-2017, 08:13 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster View Post
Once the new 2 series goes to an FWD based chassis I will no longer be interested just like I am no longer interested in an X1. I own an e84 X1 and am not interested in the X2.

If BMW really cancels the M2 CSL , then I will have to agree with Pyrat 2 that there may not be a single product in the lineup that captures ME as a BMW buyer.

The 3/4/5/7 are all much larger cars than I want.
Apparently the next 2 series (coupe) will remain RWD!! But the 2GC will be FWD. Iím not convinced of this but a reliable source on the forum has Ďconfirmedí it as fact!!
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      12-21-2017, 08:17 PM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by LemonOne View Post
BMW should go back to the days when they only had 3,5,7, X5, X3.

So in other words, go out of business. Hooray! What a BMW fan you are.!

Maybe Porsche should stop selling SAV also ?
I don't care about these models, I actually think is a great move. My complaint is loosing your differentiation and brand identity while at it. At $38k this vehicle has enough premium for a RWD platform with a good 6-cyl engine with great driving dynamics. But this move to FWD, 4-cyl platforms that drive like VW's are great for sales and investor relations but are quickly tarnishing the brand and destroying decades of BMW being known as the ultimate driving machine. No Mercedes or Audi ever drove like a BMW did. Now BMW is just another overinflated luxury brand with nothing to make it different than its competitors and the one thing they had (///M brand) is now being diluted to every single line up.
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      12-21-2017, 08:39 PM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Penguino View Post
I don't care about these models, I actually think is a great move. My complaint is loosing your differentiation and brand identity while at it. At $38k this vehicle has enough premium for a RWD platform with a good 6-cyl engine with great driving dynamics. But this move to FWD, 4-cyl platforms that drive like VW's are great for sales and investor relations but are quickly tarnishing the brand and destroying decades of BMW being known as the ultimate driving machine. No Mercedes or Audi ever drove like a BMW did. Now BMW is just another overinflated luxury brand with nothing to make it different than its competitors and the one thing they had (///M brand) is now being diluted to every single line up.
in your opinion...

please by all means, share with us the data you have to support your assertion regarding how BMW should be putting a 6 cyl and RWD platform in this vehicle.

I have a feeling BMW AG would like to differ with you. I mean really.. if you want a six cylinder then go ahead and WHINE about it.. but don't make up stuff.

I am sure the people over at Porsche ( WHERE THERE IS NO SUBSTITUTE) sure feel they would never " tarnish the brand " and would never " destroy decades of " not substituting" .. so there absolutely is a 6 cylinder in the Boxster / Cayman.. - wait what? they put in a 4 cylinder?
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      12-21-2017, 08:54 PM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Penguino View Post
I don't care about these models, I actually think is a great move. My complaint is loosing your differentiation and brand identity while at it. At $38k this vehicle has enough premium for a RWD platform with a good 6-cyl engine with great driving dynamics. But this move to FWD, 4-cyl platforms that drive like VW's are great for sales and investor relations but are quickly tarnishing the brand and destroying decades of BMW being known as the ultimate driving machine. No Mercedes or Audi ever drove like a BMW did. Now BMW is just another overinflated luxury brand with nothing to make it different than its competitors and the one thing they had (///M brand) is now being diluted to every single line up.
in your opinion...

please by all means, share with us the data you have to support your assertion regarding how BMW should be putting a 6 cyl and RWD platform in this vehicle.

I have a feeling BMW AG would like to differ with you. I mean really.. if you want a six cylinder then go ahead and WHINE about it.. but don't make up stuff.

I am sure the people over at Porsche ( WHERE THERE IS NO SUBSTITUTE) sure feel they would never " tarnish the brand " and would never " destroy decades of " not substituting" .. so there absolutely is a 6 cylinder in the Boxster / Cayman.. - wait what? they put in a 4 cylinder?
Did Porsche make a 4-cyl FWD Cayman?

Go ahead and order an X2 if you like it so much. Won't drive much different than the Civic you are used to drive. I'm sure you bought your first BMW 3 years ago. Us that have been driving BMWs for the past 20 years know a thing or two about the brand. You should listen more and type less.
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      12-21-2017, 09:16 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Penguino View Post
Did Porsche make a 4-cyl FWD Cayman?

Go ahead and order an X2 if you like it so much. Won't drive much different than the Civic you are used to drive. I'm sure you bought your first BMW 3 years ago. Us that have been driving BMWs for the past 20 years know a thing or two about the brand. You should listen more and type less.
you should ASSUME less.. When I was in school I was taught.. ASS - U- ( not) ME.

Did I say anything about FWD in a Porsche? NO
Did I say I liked the X2 so much? NO
have I ever owned a Honda civic ? NO
was I driving a BMW 20 years ago? YES I purchased my first BMW in 1993 to be precise.
Do I " know a thing about the brand" ? - I WASN'T A TEN YEAR PRESIDENT OF A BMW CCA CHAPTER FOR NOTHING. I'm also a LIFETIME BMW CCA MEMBER.


Quote:
Originally Posted by LemonOne View Post
There's a difference between a fanboy and an enthusiast.
I'm the latter (or I guess you could say I'm an oldschool bmw fan)
People who are born in the 90's will never understand where i'm coming from.
Are you an " old school bmw fan" or.. are you a curmudgeon like @penguino screaming at the young kids -" GET OFF MY LAWN " like you are the only old school BMW fan around?

So.. you were saying something about people born in the 90s ?
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      12-21-2017, 09:17 PM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Penguino View Post
Did Porsche make a 4-cyl FWD Cayman?

Go ahead and order an X2 if you like it so much. Won't drive much different than the Civic you are used to drive. I'm sure you bought your first BMW 3 years ago. Us that have been driving BMWs for the past 20 years know a thing or two about the brand. You should listen more and type less.
you should ASSUME less.. When I was in school I was taught.. ASS - U not ME.
You should go back then
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      12-21-2017, 09:20 PM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Penguino View Post
You should go back then
wait for it...... . (see above)
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      12-21-2017, 11:32 PM   #78
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Absolutely represents everything that has gone wrong with BMW over the last several years.

There is no reason in the world that someone shopping this thing wouldn?t have his or her needs met by the likes of an x1 or 3er Estate.

Just dilutes the brand even further.
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      12-21-2017, 11:53 PM   #79
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Originally Posted by GFK007 View Post
Absolutely represents everything that has gone wrong with BMW over the last several years.

There is no reason in the world that someone shopping this thing wouldn?t have his or her needs met by the likes of an x1 or 3er Estate.

Just dilutes the brand even further.
What's a 3er Estate? We only get an automatic, awd one with a four cylinder petrol engine here, and only for a few more months. We won't be getting any wagons from the G series cars. 2018, the last year of BMW wagons for the US. Not that they've really given them a chance for a decade or more.
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      12-21-2017, 11:54 PM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jono2112 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by goj View Post
Give me a real color and an M40i trim and you have an amazing "entry-level" high performance SAV
How does the inline six fit a front wheel drive platform?
Like this:
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      12-22-2017, 12:18 AM   #81
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You should go back then
wait for it...... . (see above)
Ahhh that'd explain the biased support.
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      12-22-2017, 12:21 AM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Penguino View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster View Post
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Originally Posted by Penguino View Post
You should go back then
wait for it...... . (see above)
Ahhh that'd explain the biased support.
Yup. Because I feel so strongly about BMWs (and the people that like them ) that I volunteer my time for them.

I'm an old school M snob. Never owned anything but an M car for 17 years. But you know what.. I've also learned that pretty much all BMWs are pretty damn special once you get behind the wheel. Those are few and far between it seems indeed. But wishing that BMW was the same company it was in 1986 would mean that BMW would currently be the same as Pontiac. Or Saturn. Dead.


If BMW stops building a car I want then I will move on. Until then I'll welcome any car that they want to sell if it gets them enough money ,' mojo, or moxie to make an M2 CSL. For damn sure they aren't gonna make a 2020 E30 M3 sport evo..
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      12-22-2017, 12:24 AM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Penguino View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Penguino View Post
You should go back then
wait for it...... . (see above)
Ahhh that'd explain the biased support.
Yup. Because I feel so strongly about bmws and the people that like them that I volunteer my time for them.
I'm unbiased & impartial. BMW has done great things with many of the new models. X5 looks great. New 8 looks even better. M5 is burning magazines right now.

This new VW approach thought to their new line up is destroying the brand. If you don't see it, we know why.
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      12-22-2017, 12:31 AM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Penguino View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Penguino View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Penguino View Post
You should go back then
wait for it...... . (see above)
Ahhh that'd explain the biased support.
Yup. Because I feel so strongly about bmws and the people that like them that I volunteer my time for them.
I'm unbiased & impartial. BMW has done great things with many of the new models. X5 looks great. New 8 looks even better. M5 is burning magazines right now.

This new VW approach thought to their new line up is destroying the brand. If you don't see it, we know why.
Spoken like a true non believer. I'm partial, biased, and still have some faith. I didn't lose faith in 2010 and I'm certainly enjoying my 1M. . In the meantime there are certainly some other fantastic bargains on older BMWs around.
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      12-22-2017, 05:07 AM   #85
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Let us make some order in the cabinet here.
FWD is one issue, engine size and configuration completely another and both have nothing to do with good vs. bad technical execution.

The problem with BMW and Mercedes FWD vehicles is in bad technical execution or badly refined platform. There is nothing wrong with FWD in itself if done correctly; sadly, both decided to make a platform that is cheap and just glue the badge on it; their FWD platform is not about refinement but rather only about how to pull as much money as possible out of people's pockets.

Many European mass-market cars drive much better and offer much more for a fraction of the BMW/M-B FWD price. You're mentioning VW; the EU Golf (US one is a bit different) is the reference in its class; the Mercedes A class drives like a wooden cart in comparison and the Golf has even a better interior. Open the British "What car?" magazine; A class got 3 stars and Golf got 5 stars.
But the people buy, they buy the badge.
Fashion brands make huge profits on the assorted merchandise, not on their core luxury designer stuff. Some brands decided that is not enough and begun to stamp their logo on cheap Chinese-made stuff or common T-shirts.

BMW refined their RWD platform through the years and there is where the expertise and investments of the brand are. Many inside BMW wanted the next 1 series to be RWD; why it is going to be FWD? A group came to the meeting, calculated that making it FWD results in 750$ of additional profit per each car, made a projection of sold cars and the present made standing ovations for FWD. This is how you make career.

Audi uses the knowledge and investments of the whole VW group (VW, Skoda, Seat) for their smaller FWD platforms; Audi A3, Audi Q3, Audi Q4. The upcoming models of these cars are going to offer a truly premium driving performance, materials, cabin and so on.

As for engines, EU legislation is making impossible anything over 4-cylinder engines for mass produced cars; and with year 2025 even those should be thrown out. CO2 emissions requirements that can be met only with electric cars.
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      12-23-2017, 07:20 AM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Antares View Post
Let us make some order in the cabinet here.
FWD is one issue, engine size and configuration completely another and both have nothing to do with good vs. bad technical execution.

The problem with BMW and Mercedes FWD vehicles is in bad technical execution or badly refined platform. There is nothing wrong with FWD in itself if done correctly; sadly, both decided to make a platform that is cheap and just glue the badge on it; their FWD platform is not about refinement but rather only about how to pull as much money as possible out of people's pockets.

Many European mass-market cars drive much better and offer much more for a fraction of the BMW/M-B FWD price. You're mentioning VW; the EU Golf (US one is a bit different) is the reference in its class; the Mercedes A class drives like a wooden cart in comparison and the Golf has even a better interior. Open the British "What car?" magazine; A class got 3 stars and Golf got 5 stars.
But the people buy, they buy the badge.

Audi uses the knowledge and investments of the whole VW group (VW, Skoda, Seat) for their smaller FWD platforms; Audi A3, Audi Q3, Audi Q4. The upcoming models of these cars are going to offer a truly premium driving performance
You’re saying BMW have ‘badly executed’ the fwd platform... really? Surely it’s a bit early to tell don’t you think!? Correct me if I’m wrong, but they only currently make two fwd cars, the X1 & the 2 series AT. I haven’t taken much notice of the latter, & most X1 are AWD, but certainly the X1 is rated best in class! I don’t believe the active tourer is badly rated either!

How about we wait and see what BMW come up with where they are actually replacing a rwd car with a fwd platform.... you may be surprised! I’m absolutely sure the new 1 series will out drive the current A Class without a doubt!!

Sure, they may fail and a Focus or Golf may end up the better drive, but let’s talk about that when it’s proven and not speculate on how all future front drive BMWs will be rubbish!

Footnote: sure What Car rate the A3 & Golf as 5 star cars... but What Car are not the definitive driving enthusiasts bible... I’d take more notice of CAR or Autocar personally!! (& I wouldn’t be surprised if VW Audi group have a mega ad deal in place with What Car)

Last edited by nozydog; 12-23-2017 at 07:29 AM.
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      12-23-2017, 08:40 AM   #87
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You’re saying BMW have ‘badly executed’ the fwd platform... really? Surely it’s a bit early to tell don’t you think!? Correct me if I’m wrong, but they only currently make two fwd cars, the X1 & the 2 series AT. I haven’t taken much notice of the latter, & most X1 are AWD, but certainly the X1 is rated best in class! I don’t believe the active tourer is badly rated either!

How about we wait and see what BMW come up with where they are actually replacing a rwd car with a fwd platform.... you may be surprised! I’m absolutely sure the new 1 series will out drive the current A Class without a doubt!!

Sure, they may fail and a Focus or Golf may end up the better drive, but let’s talk about that when it’s proven and not speculate on how all future front drive BMWs will be rubbish!

Footnote: sure What Car rate the A3 & Golf as 5 star cars... but What Car are not the definitive driving enthusiasts bible... I’d take more notice of CAR or Autocar personally!! (& I wouldn’t be surprised if VW Audi group have a mega ad deal in place with What Car)
I agree, one must be careful these days when taking "the free press" as a reference; just ask Trump okay, joking here, still, consumers bust be watchful.
The new 1 series is going to share the same basics with the X1, so I doubt BMW is going to make any big difference that would require further financial investment. As for X1 being reference, this is marketing; reference to what? We may doubt "What car?", but let's go over the ocean to US and hear what Consumer Reports has to say. The X1 is a solid car, no doubt, but it's very far away from being a luxury vehicle; only the price is and the badge. It's rather stiff, the whole driving experience is rather unrefined and the cabin is really noisy, the road noise is worse than in mass-market cars; unfit for a premium vehicle (saving on basics).
Rent a M-B GLC, X3 vs. X1 over the weekend and compare the driving experience; totally another planet (the size of these cars is quite close for such a difference).
The BMW 2van is plagued by issues, especially the quality of mechanical parts is criminal; the Aisin gearbox-you can't change the oil and its filter, it fills with debris, after 50.000km it is already half consumed, not repairable and BMW sells it for luxury. Look at the excellent auto transmission Peugeot has; way above what BMW puts in its FWD.
Actually the Mini (that has borrowed the platform to the X1) is better executed, and this opinion of me is repeated by Consumer Reports, by people in USA, far away form me or What Car in UK.

I'm not going into Mercedes-Benz FWD vehicles, because those are not solid cars (BMW at least makes a solid package, a FWD mass-market grade car for a luxury price). Mercedes-Benz is "designers merchandise", like "Versace" printed on some item you find in Morocco's market. I don't need What car to confirm me that, or Consumers Report to tear Mercedec-Benz FWD vehicles apart. I've test driven the A-class and it's garbage, not a premium vehicle, rather much worse than mass-market cars in EU. Does it sell? Yes, top 10 in UK; it has a saucer sized star badge on its front. But this tells more about the people buying it than about the car.

About the "drive" issue; want something that drives like a racing machine? the new Alpine A110 - the forbidden fruit. It sticks to the road like glue and it's even comfortable and suitable for everyday use; how? Extra lightweight and thus less mass that needs stiff suspension.

As for the VW-group MBQ platform for Golf, Tiguan, Audi A3, Q3, Q4, Skoda nad Seat brand models. This platform is the best and the industry's standard; the new BMW 1er and M-B A-class are being tested against this platform, it serves them as a reference point. So how is BMW X1 being a "reference" is beyond me; unless one considers how reference duping buyers to accept a luxury selling price for a good mass-market grade drive experience and average EU quality. The VW group has excellent engineers and the MBQ platform is really excellent; something that has been refined and heavily invested through all these years.

Last edited by Antares; 12-25-2017 at 05:09 AM.
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      12-23-2017, 10:56 PM   #88
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I agree, one must be careful these days when taking "the free press" as a reference; just ask Trump okay, joking here, still, consumers bust be watchful.
The new 1 series is going to share the same basics with the X1, so I doubt BMW is going to make any big difference that would require further financial investment. As for X1 being reference, this is marketing; reference to what? We may doubt "What car?", but let's go over the ocean to US and hear what Consumer Reports has to say. The X1 is a solid car, no doubt, but it's very far away from being a luxury vehicle; only the price is and the badge. It's rather stiff, the whole driving experience is rather unrefined and the cabin is really noisy, the road noise is worse than in mass-market cars; unfit for a premium vehicle (saving on basics).
Rent a M-B GLC, X3 vs. X1 over the weekend and compare the driving experience; totally another planet (the measurements of these cars are not that far apart).
The BMW 2van is plagued by issues, especially the quality of mechanical parts is criminal; the Aisin gearbox-you can't change the oil and its filter, it fills with debris, after 50.000km it is already half consumed, not repairable and BMW sells it for luxury. Look at the excellent auto transmission Peugeot has; way above what BMW puts in its FWD.
Actually the Mini (that has borrowed the platform to the X1) is better executed, and this opinion of me is repeated by Consumer Reports, by people in USA, far away form me or What Car in UK.

I'm not going into Mercedes-Benz FWD vehicles, because those are not solid cars (BMW at least makes a solid package, a FWD mass-market grade car for a luxury price). Mercedes-Benz is "designers merchandise", like "Versace" printed on some item you find in Morocco's market. I don't need What car to confirm me that, or Consumers Report to tear Mercedec-Benz FWD vehicles apart. I've test driven the A-class and it's garbage, not for a premium vehicle, rather compared to mass-market EU cars. Does it sell? Yes, top 10 in UK; it has a saucer sized star badge on its front. But this tells more about the people than about the car.

About the "drive" issue; want something that drives like a racing machine? the new Alpine A110 - the forbidden fruit. It sticks to the road like glue and it's even comfortable and suitable for everyday use; how? Extra lightweight and less mass that needs stiff suspension.

As for the VW-group MBQ platform for Golf, Tiguan, Audi A3, Q3, Q4, Skoda nad Seat brand models. This platform is the best and the industry's standard; the new BMW 1er and M-B A-class are being tested against this platform, that serves them as a reference point. So how is BMW X1being a "reference" is beyond me; unless one considers how to dupe clients to accept a luxury selling price for a good mass-market grade drive experience and average EU quality. The VW group has excellent engineers and the MBQ platform is really excellent; something that has been refined and heavily invested through all these years.
Now youíve totally confused me, Iím not entirely sure what youíre trying to say! All I said is letís wait and see, because at the end of the day if the new breed of fwd BMW cars are going to be a second rate drive, sales will drop as most discerning car buyers will read road test reviews before buying!! I believe they will at least be a match for VW/Audi group cars... Audi until recently were always considered a very dull drive and some people still donít consider them to be particularly dynamic!!
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